Re: The Psycho-epistemolgy of MMP

On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 10:44:11 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:

On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 23:08:34 +0000, Will-Dockery wrote:
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George J. Dance wrote:
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 2:28:41 +0000, Will Dockery wrote:
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On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:58:37 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
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On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 13:45:51 +0000, Will Dockery wrote:
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On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 4:07:04 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:

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moved from
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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=254114&group=alt.arts.poe
try.comments#254114

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On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 0:20:56 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
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That's Michael Pendragon, always the Peter Keating styled second hander.
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Essentially we're in agreement; but I have to raise two non-essential
points of disagreement. First, I would rather not refer to the subject
as "Pendragon." The subject's real name is unknown; "Michael

Pendragon"

is just one of his socks, albeit the most prolific one. I would prefer
to refer to him as "MMP" (which doesn't mean you have to, of

course, if

you disagree).
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Second, I don't think that Peter Keating is the best 'type' to describe
MMP in the novel. Both Keating and MMP are social metaphysicians - they
think that reality is whatever people believe it is, the

"consensus"

view of reality. But so do half the novel. Where those two are different
is that Keating is content to follow the consensus, while MMP believes
he can actually control reality by controlling others' beliefs. That
makes him more like two of Rand's other protagonists from that novel,
Gail Wynand and Ellsworth Toohey. Which of those matches him best is
still an open question.
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Why does Michael Pendragon lie and misrepresent so much?
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MMP has told us he was abused as a boy, and I think that fact is key.
Lying is one tactic children usually try at some point to escape
punishment, and an abused child has all the more reason to keep at it ad
learn how to do it successfully. Since MMP comes across as clever (at
least 120 IQ), it is also fair to think that he was able to learn to lie
successfully. So it is fair to conclude that he did learn to lie
successfully, and escape punishment, more than once.
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While no one can blame a child in that position for lying, his doing so
successfully would be giving him the wrong feedback, making him think
that he actually was changing reality by changing his parents' beliefs -
telling him that in fact reality was whatever one wanted it to be, and
that he could be that one.
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More later, but I wanted to get these two points on record quickly.
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Interesting, I'm starting to think both Harry Lime and Jim Senetto were
actually projecting in their critiques of "My Father's House."
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I can imagine that for the Lime sock (MMP). As far as his Chimp, though,
I don't want to leap to that conclusion for him. Remember, he is the
less intelligent of the two, and in consequence he just believes and
says whatever MMP tells him to. That could be all he was doing in those
threads as well.
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It seems that Senetto took the lead in attempting to drive Stephan
Pickering from the newsgroup though, but that may have been fueled by
Senetto's obvious Antisemitism.

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Thanks for reminding me. It was actually MMP who did that by bringing
NAMBLA to the group. That triggered Jim, just the way MFH triggered him
after he was told that it was really about child molesting.

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I'm drawing a blank on MFH myself
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Who is that?

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MFH = "My Father's House".

That poem should be bumped to the top for our new readers, but I'll to
try you decide how you want to present a new version or simply revive
the original thread.
And so it goes.