Re: NastyGoon lifts a line

On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 0:04:15 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article.php?id=255731&group=alt.arts.poetry.comments
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 16:15:27 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain (MPP) aka
"HarryLime" wrote:
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I realized from the content of NancyGene's posts that they were
intelligent, well-educated, and better written than anyone here.
Naturally, I asked them to start contributing to the "Sampler."  And I
was right in doing so.
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Here are the opening lines of NancyGene's latest poem:
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"Yesterdays stack up like piles of read newspapers,
Cluttering my mind and obstructing my day."
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That's poetry of the highest quality.

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The opening line is very good. It's almost as good as the opening line
of Robert Creeleys poem, "The Days Pile Up":
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"The days pile up like unread newspapers,"
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I do hope "Dr." NastyGoon credited Mr. Creeley; otherwise that would be
something they would call, you know -- "plagiarism".

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Here we have yet another example of George Dance's libelous and
duplicitous nature.
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For starters he claims that NancyGene "lift(ed) the line" from Robert
Creeley's poem.
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This is an obvious lie.
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NancyGene wrote:
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"Yesterdays stack up like piles of read newspapers,
Cluttering my mind and obstructing my day."
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Mr. Creeley wrote: "The days pile up like unread newspapers."
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The only similarity between the two is extremely superficial; i.e., that
both use the image of piled newspapers as a simile.
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However, they are comparing the newspapers to two very different things.
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NancyGene's poem compares them to "Yesterdays" (which, in the context of
her poem, is a metaphor for "Memories").
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Mr. Creeley's poem compares them to "days" (which, from the one line
that I've read of his poem, appears to be a metaphor for "Time").
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In short, we have different sets of words being applied to different
subjects.
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Furthermore, NancyGene's simile for Memory compares it to a stack of
"read newspapers; whereas Mr. Creeley's poem compares Time to a pile of
"unread newspapers."
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The significance between "read" and "unread" newspapers is not merely a
matter of semantics.  As a simile for Memory, the newspapers have been
read because they represent the daily events that the speaker has
experienced.  These experiences are what provide the content of their
memories.
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Whereas in Mr. Creeley's poem, the newspapers are unread (not
experienced by the speaker).  Again, I have not read Mr. Creeley's poem
(more on that later), but based on the content of the opening line, it
appears that his poem refers to the passage of time piling up on the
speaker like *wasted days*.  IOW, the speaker is a recluse or shut-in of
some sort -- whether through age, infirmity, or depression.
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These are vastly different subjects with only a few superficial
resemblances in their opening lines.  That is hardly an act of literary
theft (a.k.a., plagiarism) -- in spite of Mr. Dance's accusation.
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Secondly, Mr. Dance's accusation of literary theft entails that
NancyGene had been familiar with Mr. Creeley's poem.  By leveling this
accusation at her, Mr. Dance is implying that NancyGene had knowingly
lifted a line from Mr. Creeley's poem, without crediting the line to
him.  I have spoken to NancyGene regarding this, and she has never heard
of his poem.  Nor, for that matter, have I.
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So what, exactly is going on here?
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Let's summarize the above:
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George Dance noticed some superficial similarity between the line I'd
quoted from NancyGene's poem and a line in a poem by Mr. Creeley.  Even
though the similes are about different topics, and even though the
"newspapers" are "read" in one poem and "unread" in the other (with
different metaphoric meanings implicit in each); and even though Mr.
Dance had no means of knowing whether NancyGene had even heard of Mr.
Creeley's poem, he falsely accused her of literary theft.
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Aside: He through in one of his childish names ("NastyGoon") as well.
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Both NancyGene and I have attempted to track down a copy of Mr.
Creeley's poem online, without success.
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To give you an idea of significance of this, I proceeded to conduct a
similar search using the name of an obscure small press poet + a
line/title from one of his works.  My search returned three results.
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Apparently Mr. Creeley's poem is more obscure than that of a poem by a
totally unknown amateur.  Nor does this appear to be due to copyright
laws, as I was able to find a pdf file for an entire collection of
poetry by Mr. Creeley -- in which the poem in question had not been
included.
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I'm sure that one could find a superficial match for any given line of
poetry, as there probably billions of poems to choose from.  But why
take my word on it.  Let's give it a try and see if I'm correct.
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Let's search for the opening line of Mr. Dance's most well known poem:
"This is my father's house, although The man died thirteen years ago."
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The search returned a whopping 10 pages of results.
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There is a well known hymn by Maltbie Davenport Babcock which opens with
"This is my father's world..." ("This is my father's world, I rest me in
the thought of rocks and trees of skies and seas").  Of course, the
father in this verse is the Judeo-Christian God, so while the words are
similar enough the meanings are entirely different.
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Here's another example where the father is the speaker's biological one:
it's the title of a song by Bruce Springsteen.  Bruce's relationship
with his father in the song appears to be a loving one (and one can even
draw a parallel between  the relationship of Little Bruce and his
biological to one between Grownup Bruce and God).  Again, a different
message, but the Title is *exactly* the same.
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Of course I would never so much as intimate that George Dance lifted the
title of his poem from Mr. Springsteen.  I would not even imply this
when I think it highly probable that Mr. Dance has some familiarity with
Mr. Springsteen's song.  Since most titles are intended to call
attention to a poem's topic, there are many poems and songs that have
the same titles.
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PING! George Dance.  If you know of a site where Mr. Creeley's poem
appears, please either post a link to it, or (copyright permissions
allowing) post a copy of the poem itself for comparison.  From what I
have seen of it thus far, it appears to have no relation to NancyGene's
poem, apart from their shared use of a pile of newspapers to create
different similes on different topics.
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I've never understood where your animosity toward NancyGene stems from.
You have launched numerous attacks on her over the years, while she has
largely abstained from the majority of your flame wars with other
members.
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I have, however, always suspected that it stems from jealously on your
part, as her posts are better written than yours, and reveal her to be
better educated and more intelligent than yourself (in spite of your
claims of having been a member of MENSA).
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I think that this latest attack was provoked by my having paid a
well-deserved compliment to one of her poems -- as you have always been
jealous of any poet whose work I have praised (Jim Senetto, for
example).
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In conclusion, I would like to stress the fact that NancyGene's poem is
entirely an original work, and that her opening line is one of the best
that I have ever come across.  I prefer it to Mr. Creeley's because it
strikes me as being universally applicable, whereas Mr. Creeley's
(assuming I am reading correctly in its out-of-context form) deals with
cases of isolation and clinical depression which fewer individuals have
experienced.
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