Re: NastyGoon lifts a line

On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 19:10:19 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:

On Thu, 13 Feb 2025 18:51:48 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
>

On Thu, 13 Feb 2025 15:51:41 +0000, HarryLime wrote:

On Thu, 13 Feb 2025 13:37:42 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:

On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 4:00:34 +0000, HarryLime wrote:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 23:55:05 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 16:44:20 +0000, HarryLime wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 5:38:14 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:

On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 1:38:39 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:

>

Since you refuse to reprint the poem, or provide a link to it, you can't
fault me for basing my reading on a single, out of context line.

>
Actually, HarryLiar, we're now talking about my reading of the line -
"the unread newspapers represent all the things one doesn't get to do in
a day, all the unfinished business that just keeps piling up and piling
up" and your response" which I called a "great metaphor" and your
response: "Yes, George, that's Creeley's simile.  [Please note the
difference
between "simile" and "metaphor."]
>
Using "the days" to represent "unfinished business" is not a simile.
It's symbolism, or (if you'd like to quibble) metonymy.

>
I believe that I first learned about similes in the 3rd Grade.  A simile
was defined as a comparison between two seemingly different things (A is
like B).

>

I've never had any interest in labeling the various forms, styles,
components, etc., of poetry.

>

I know that PJR and Horatio used to do
that quite a bit, and that you were always eager to join in -- only to
be ignored.  It always struck me as an exercise in pointlessness.
Poetry isn't about the labels one can attach to it, or the categories
one can pigeonhole it into.

>
So, unless you're just trolling again, why did you bring it up here?
>

NancyGene's line is great regardless of whether it's a simile, metaphor,
or an example of symbolism.

>

As I previously explained to you, the newspapers in NancyGene's simile
represent "Yesterdays," or *Memories.*

>
That is also not a simile. If NastyGoon had said in the poem "Yesterdays
are like memories" that would be have been a simile, but they did not.
In your reading, they are also using a different literary device.

>
And just what literary device is that?

>
"Symbolism" sounds good to me.

>
It doesn't to me.

>
Well, I did offer you another option: "metonymy".
>

A symbol is the substitution of one thing for another.  Using
"Yesterdays" to represent "Memories" is closer to being a symbol (it's
actually a metaphor) than "Yesterdays... (are) like ... read newspapers"
(which I still think is a simile).

>
Now this is cute; you began by denying that Creeley's use (in my
interpretation) of "The Days" that are piling up to "unfinished
business" that piles up was a "metaphor" (and claimed it was a simile.
Now you're insisting that NG's use of
"Yesterdays" (in your interpretation) to represent "memories" *is* a
'metaphor. You're doing exactly the same thing you accused me of.

>
Either Harry Lime is confused or he's trying to confuse you and the
audience.

No, Donkey.
I'll be patient with you because I know that you haven't a clues as to
what either George or I are discussing.
Words have different meanings in different contexts.
George is taking my statements out of context in order to create a false
contradiction.
I said that "Yesterdays" in NancyGene's poem is a "metaphor" for
"memories."  And that is exactly what it is.
I had earlier said that the opening line of NancyGene's poem is a
simile.
This isn't rocket science.  The *WORD* "Yesterdays" is a metaphor for
"memories."  Whereas the *LINE*:
"Yesterdays stack up like piles of read newspapers,
Cluttering my mind and obstructing my day."
is a simile.
In the line the simile has nothing to do with the noun "Yesterdays." The simile is based one verb "pile up."  Yesterdays *pile up like*
newspapers vs Yesterdays *are like* newspapers.
Got it?
Probably not.  We're getting into 5th grade level English here, and your
English skills wouldn't get you through the 4th grade.
But you can be assured that duplicitous George gets it.  I can only
assume that he's trying to confuse "the audience," which, consisting
solely of Will Donkey, he has done successfully.

So you're saying that using "Yesterdays" to mean "memories" makes sense;
but we're discussing their simile, not that literary device.

>
Are you now going to prattle on about some unnamed literary device
(which you have no intention of identifying)?

>
I just identified it, in both poems, HarryLiar.

>
How can you accuse me of lying it my previous post, when you just
identified it (incorrectly, IMHO) in this one?

>
I didn't accuse you of "lying it" in your previous post. "HarryLiar" is
just your new nickname (since you didn't like "Lime sock"). If I accuse
you of lying, I'll call you Lying Michael (since that's the search term
for your lies that I'm now using so those can be found.

>
Where's the best place to search Usenet newsgroup archives now, in your
opinion, George?
>
I assume the Google Groups archives are now longer up to date.

Duh.  Google Groups said they would no longer be updating them.
Google Groups still remains the best place for searching archived posts
-- up until their closing date last year.

Now, as for their
similes, both are virtually identical: both compare days ("The days" in
one, "Yesterdays" in the other) to newspapers {"unread" in one, "read"
in the other).

>
But the days are used to represent *different things* in each.
>
Yesterdays = Memories vs Days = Increments of Time.

>

Are you really so dense as to be incapable of seeing past the specific
words to recognize their metaphorical (or, if you must, symbolic)
meanings?

>
HarryLIar, judging by what you think Creeley meant by "The days", you
seem to be the one incapable of recognizing that he was using it had a
metaphorical meaning. (I can now call it "metaphor" even though you
continue to insist that "not a metaphor.")

>
Harry Lime, as always, just makes it up as he goes along.

Again, I thank you for the comparison to Indiana Jones.
As you well know, George Dance only posted one line of Creeley's allged
poem.  Based on that line, Creeley's use of "Days" is not metaphorical. They are literally a measurement of time.
If George ever posts the entire poem (or even the second line), I may
change my reading of it.  But for now, that is the most that anyone can
legitimately make of it.

>
aka lies and misrepresentations.

We're only discussing one line of each poem. I got his symbolism merely
by a reading of one line, and saw it as a good simile. I also got
NastyGoon's simile by the same reading of one line, and on reflection
see it as a bad simile.

>
You see what you want to see, George.

>
Ho, hum.

>
That's pretty funny coming from Michael Pendragon aka Harry Lime, who
regularly makes things up as he goes along and of course then posts them
in with his usual lies and misrepresentations.

Just because you're incapable of following a logical train of thought
based on sentence composition, doesn't mean that it's made up, Donkey.

>

Second, if one wanted to say that their memories were oppressive (as you
say NG is trying to express with their simile) doesn't make sense
either, because (in addition to not normally stacking up in piles),
"read newspapers" aren't oppressive either.

>

I sure as hell felt oppressive feelings (claustrophobia, suffocation)
when entering her house through the yellowing stacks.  Old newspapers
have a distinctive odor as well, which lends to the feelings of
suffocation.

>
Your Great Aunt's house? Well, assuming that you didn't just make her up
to defend your "colleague's" simile, I'll point out that readers who
didn't have a Great Aunt like yours would have no idea why newspapers
were oppressive. They'd see it as a bad simile which ruins the line,
just as I do.

>
And, again, I'm willing to venture that they immediately pick up on the
similarity between stacks of *read* newspapers and memories.  One
doesn't need to have had a clinically depressed Great Aunt to recognize
that.

>
Well, the only way to tell what other readers will think of NastyGoon's
line is if their poem gets any other readers. Good luck to them.

>
Is the poem even available for reading and commenting on Usenet?
>
I haven't seen it anywhere here that I know of.

The poem was submitted to The Official AAPC Facebook Group for inclusion
in our monthy publication, "A Year of Sundays" which is due out at the
beginning of March.  You'll be able to read it in its entirety there.
--