Re: John Roberts won't save Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

May 25, 2025 at 12:05:37 PM PDT, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

May 25, 2025 at 8:17:44 AM PDT, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

Tue, 8 Apr 2025 04:17:01 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

You do realize the guys they're going after have already had their
hearings and just ignored their deportation orders, right? Do we
need to give them another hearing about the hearing? And then maybe
a third hearing to examine the first and second hearings?

If the guy already has had the hearing they're entitled to, what's
left other than execution of the deportation order?

Perhaps he might be hauled into court to verify that the deportation
order is valid but at that point he gets cuffs and a one way trip to
either the airport or to the border right?

You simply don't have the right to unlimited stays of warrants. I'm
all for due process but you don't have the right to come up with a new
excuse ad infinitum.

You've both completely lost the thread. It's deportation into the
custody of the government of a country that they are not nationals of,
that immediately put them into prison per agreement with the Trump
administration.

Abrego Garcia is an El Salvador national. El Salvador is his home country.
Where else should he be deported to?

Why are you acting like this? The last order from an administrative law
judge was that he was NOT to be deported

Because he would allegedly face persecution from a rival gang. Let that sink
in. If you're not a gang member, you have no rival gang, by definition. But
apparently we're supposed to keep violent gang members in America to shelter
them from the consequences of the gang activity in which they chose to engage
before they illegally broke into our country and then joined up with other
members of their gang here in the U.S.

Have I disputed that there are allegations against him? I didn't say
he's actually innocent. I'm an American. I don't have to believe he's
innocent to believe he's entitled to due process.

You've been arguing that final orders of deportation from these
administrative law judges are final orders. That hearing was due
process. They aren't subject to another hearing if they failed to leave
the country following the order.

Here you argue that the administrative law judge's order can be ignored
by the Trump administration.

Which is it? Are the orders of these administrative law judges legally
binding or not? You are trying to have it both ways.

Then Trump defied courts by refusing to ask El Salvador to send him back.

Doesn't really matter. El Salvador said they won't send him back even if
asked.

He's a Trump ally. If Trump asked, they'd ship him back. Either way, it
does matter that Trump defied the Supreme Court by not asking.

Not everyone sent to El Salvador were nationals. Then it turned out
others weren't supposed to have been deported.

But even if a Salvadoran national had a final order of deportation, it's
still a due process violation to send him to El Salvador having made
an arrangement for him to be held in prison.

Elsewhere you said you still favored due process. Well, sending
deportees, whatever their nationality, to another country to be held in
prison who were not found guilty of a felony in that country isn't due
process of any kind. It's kidnapping, international human trafficking,
unlawful restraint, etc. Those crines were committed by the Trump
administration which made the deal with El Salvador to hold these
deportees in prison.

What the hell?

Just not really concerned that all that much about a bunch of MS-13 and Tren
de Aragua gang members who should never have been here in the first place.
Sorry.

I'm concerned about the United States and the rule of law.

You quote Brandenburg often enough. You believe the Constitution applies
to everybody, even someone trying to re-start the KKK, even gang members.