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On Sat, 18 May 2024 19:15:05 -0400
moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 5/18/2024 4:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:Which says absolutely nothing as is typical for you when you fail to
> In article <v2b0i8$2u4t7$3@dont-email.me>,
> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/18/2024 1:48 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <v2akce$2roir$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/18/2024 12:09 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> On May 17, 2024 at 6:43:52 PM PDT, "Rhino"
>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 00:42:52 -0700
>>>>>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 16 May 2024 13:09:59 -0700, BTR1701
>>>>>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> >Yes, and because the current system isn't a dream for
>>>>>>> >sight-readers,
>>>>>>> >that means it's a racist form of white supremacy.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >(Because only white people can sight read perfectly or
>>>>>>> >something.)
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> ><rolls eyes>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm pretty sure there were and are a few black musicians
>>>>>>> who have managed the feat and somehow a lot of the concert
>>>>>>> pianists these days
>>>>>>> are of Asian origin...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wouldn't expect that to continue if I were you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I understand it, Asian musicians expressed concerns that
>>>>>> they weren't getting performance gigs as white musicians and
>>>>>> attributed this to race. To address that, all or most
>>>>>> auditions for orchestras started being done behind screens so
>>>>>> that the judges could only hear the performance but not see
>>>>>> the performer. But apparently Asians are now seen as white or
>>>>>> white allies and a certain group of people who I'll call
>>>>>> People of Darker Colour (PODC) are demanding that they simply
>>>>>> be given positions on orchestras without auditioning because
>>>>>> they have been discriminated against in the past. I assume
>>>>>> they're proposing some kind of quota system but I'm not sure
>>>>>> what percentage of the slots they're demanding.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, I don't know if this proposal is finding any support
>>>>>> among the people who decide these things but, given the way
>>>>>> things are going in general, I would be surprised if this was
>>>>>> NOT done. Competence is going out of the window to be replaced
>>>>>> by hiring on the basis of skin colour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sure the usual suspects will be along momentarily to deny
>>>>>> all of this and/or defend it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, during the height of the Saint Floyd of Fentanyl riots,
>>>>> where literally everything in America was discovered to be
>>>>> racist, there was an article in the New York Times that
>>>>> asserted that the blind audition system used by most
>>>>> professional orchestras and ensembles was racist because it
>>>>> *prevents* racial bias in the hiring process.
>>>>>
>>>>> The 'problem' is that when musicians play behind a screen and
>>>>> the judges have no idea who the person is, what race they are,
>>>>> what gender they are, etc., it takes away the judge's ability
>>>>> to racially discriminate. This used to be considered a good
>>>>> thing, but in today's woke world, the inability to racially
>>>>> discriminate (i.e., give preference to blacks over whites) is a
>>>>> major problem that needs fixing. Blind auditions tend to result
>>>>> in orchestras being problematically white and Asian. When pure
>>>>> talent and ability are the only factors available upon which to
>>>>> base a decision, the resulting orchestras aren't 'diverse'
>>>>> enough for the intelligentsia.
>>>>>
>>>>> So now, rather than blind auditions, the wokesters want to
>>>>> remove that screen so the judges see the players, can actively
>>>>> discriminate against whites and Asians, and make hiring
>>>>> decisions based on race and gender, rather than ability to play
>>>>> the music.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone who thinks a level playing field and the elimination of
>>>>> racial discrimination is the goal of the modern
>>>>> 'progressive'... well, I have a few bridges to sell them.
>>>>>
>>>>> And with all the hand-wringing over how they needed to get rid
>>>>> of blind auditions so that they can 'fix' the problem of too
>>>>> many white classical musicians, there strangely was no plan to
>>>>> 'fix' the problem of too many black basketball players (or any
>>>>> recognition that it even is a problem in the first place).
>>>>> Wonder why that is?
>>>>
>>>> In so many words, you're complaining about 'affirmative action'
>>>> as though it were a moral absurdity. Does that sum up your view?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm complaining about making an orchestra less than world class
>>> so that you can pat yourself on the back for sticking it to
>>> whitey.
>>>
>>> Yes. Giving someone a seat on stage for any other reason than
>>> that they can do the job is morally abhorrent. I'm not surprised
>>> you cheerlead for it.
>>>
>>> Of course Asians are historically oppressed minorities, too, and
>>> they somehow manage to not only make it into these ensembles on
>>> sheer talent and merit alone, but dominate them. Weird how that's
>>> not seen as a 'diversity' success but a problem that needs
>>> 'fixing'.
>>
>> But the issue in question is 'affirmative action', i.e.:
>> procedural bias meant to hasten the homogenization of an
>> artificially bifurcate society.
>
> But in the case of these orchestras, there's nothing artificial
> about it. The auditions are blind and the chips fall where they may
> with regard to race, gender, and all the other grievance groups.
>
> A mostly white or Asian orchestra is no more of an artificial
> occurrence than is a mostly black basketball team. In both cases,
> the best people for the job are the ones who are hired.
>
> Again, why is a mostly black basketball team perfectly fine, but a
> mostly Asian orchestra 'problematic'?
>
> Both are historically oppressed minorities and both organizations
> are what they are because they hired the best people for the job.
> Why is one a 'diversity success' and the other a problem that needs
> to be fixed?
Any general policy is subject to second-guessing in any given
instance.
defend the indefensible.
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