Re: Australia Bans Prayers for Troons-- Up to 5 Years in Prison for Unauthorized Praying

On May 3, 2025 at 12:25:54 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
 

On 5/3/2025 2:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

  On May 3, 2025 at 11:12:26 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
 

  On 5/3/2025 1:17 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

    On May 3, 2025 at 8:47:26 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
   

    On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

>
       The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima
facie
    claim
      that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New
  South
      Wales were to read it.

>
    "Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone there
    believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
>
    This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief.

        So why wouldn't a gender activist be equally guilty for encouraging
someone
  to
    transition, then? That's every bit the equivalent of praying for them
*not*
  to
    transition and could likely shown to be more effective since it has the
  power
    of the state reinforcing it.

>
  I take as a given that "conversion therapy" is illegal in NSW.  But I
  don't know if its definition includes, e.g., dick-lopping, etc. .

    The relevant part of the law says, "...with the intent to change or suppress
  their sexuality or gender identity".
    A gender activist who encourages someone to transition is engaging in
  counseling with the intent to change that person's gender identity. So why
  would they not be guilty of violating this law?

>
Because 'encouragement' (i.e., advice) is part of normal (i.e.,
consensual) discourse ...whereas 'prayer' goes beyond advice by invoking
the unilateral intercession of an all-powerful despot.

 Not necessarily. Depending on one's theology, prayer doesn't directly call for
magic from an omnipotent sky-tyrant.
 Is Australia going to be sorting out who gets prosecuted for unlawful prayer
and who doesn't on the basis of each religion's specific mythology?