Re: Self defense injustice in the UK

On 6/14/2025 9:04 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Jun 14, 2025 at 3:08:06 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
 

On 6/14/2025 5:25 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

  On Jun 14, 2025 at 9:20:00 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
 

  On 6/13/2025 7:41 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

    On Jun 13, 2025 at 4:02:20 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
   

    On 6/13/2025 1:11 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

      On Jun 13, 2025 at 10:08:54 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:
     

      On 6/13/2025 12:54 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

        On Jun 13, 2025 at 8:31:04 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com>
  wrote:
       

        On 6/12/2025 4:57 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:

          On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 21:51:49 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
          wrote:
         

    Pretty much, yeah. If you're breaking into my home, I presume you
    to be a danger to me and mine. To do otherwise is suicidal. And
regardless,
    even if they're only there to steal and I can somehow know this as they're
    kicking in my front door, I'm neither legally nor morally required to
    abandon my home to thieves or stand aside and let them have their
    way with my property.
>
    And more to the point, if *you* value my TV more than your own life, why
    should I do any different?

                 Point taken and as you say you ought to have the benefit of the doubt
       when it comes to your own abode.

>
        Absolutely.  In a world that values property more than life.

                Once again, if the skell breaking into my house doesn't value his
  own life
        more than my property, why should I?

>
      Umm, in most households anyway, theft isn't considered suicidal.

            It is if you're in a place where gun ownership isn't restricted.

>
    And a place where property is valued more than life.

        If I'm at home when you come to take my property, my life is in danger,
too.
    So on one side you have a life. On the other, you have one or more lives,
  plus
    property.
        The math does itself.

>
  They come to take your property, you come to take their life.

    But I don't know that. It's not like they announce themselves as mere
  non-murderous thieves with every kick on the door. And even if they did, I'm
  supposed to risk my life and the lives of my family banking on the honesty
of
  the criminals who are kicking in my door?

>
Who knows what you're "supposed" to do?

 I do.
 And I forgot to address last time around, where you said that "They come to
take your property, you come to take their life". Only half of that is true.
In that scenario, they came to me. I didn't come to them. I was quietly
minding my own business in my own home when violence and terror arrived on my
doorstep. I didn't start the fight, I just ended it.
 

But some rational humanitarians might take into account how unlikely a
burglar is to be also homicidal.

 All one needs to do is spend a day reading the FBI crime stats to see how many
home invasions end up deadly for the residents, even when the thieves could
easily have just taken the property and left. A lot of criminals don't like to
leave witnesses to their crimes.
 

      If you're in Texas and considering home invasion as a vocation, the
      probability that you'll be shot sooner rather than later is
something you
      need to seriously consider.

>
    Or you find someone desperate enough they'll do the invasions for you.

        The[y] chose... poorly.

>
  And if it's the free choice you're envisioning, rather than a desperate
  one, then they must be suicidal.

    Yes, they desperately need my TV to feed their kids. Riiighhht...

>
Yeah, he'll probably put it towards a new Corvette...

 Ironically, you don't realize how right you are.
 I was always appalled and amazed when we'd run a search warrant in a home in
the ghettos in Houston and L.A., where we'd find babies sitting in their own
filth, malnourished, cockroaches everywhere, but darned if there wasn't the
latest PlayStation or Nintendo sitting under a giant TV on the wall.

Yes, that ready stereotype does have some basis in fact, afaik.  But I'd need some actual statistics before I'd adopt it as prevalent.