Re: The Physics Behind the Spanish Blackout

On 10/06/2025 8:08 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
 

On 10/06/2025 10:04 am, john larkin wrote:

On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 16:37:28 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
wrote:
>

On 6/9/2025 1:44 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>

On 2025-06-09 21:54, Don Y wrote: > OTOH, we're sticking with other
technologies (fossil fuels -- coal -- and > nukes) despite obvious and
yet to be solved problems INHERENT in their > technology.  Adding
"inertia" synthetically to a network is a considerably > more
realistic goal than sorting out how to deal with nuclear waste or >
the consequences of burning carbon.
>
Solar and wind can be made to impose a gigantic inertia with
appropriate electronics. You can fixate the output at 50Hz, locked no
matter what.

>
Only if the surplus energy is available to supply the necessary
current.

>
But that assumes the old usage model where the utility was the "tail"
wagged by the consumer "dog".
>
Going forward, expect to see a closer integration of load and supply
management.  It's just silly to over-provision just to accommodate any
*possible* demand when technology exists to predict and manage that
demand.

>
Right. People shouldn't just be allowed to cook or do their laundry or
heat their houses whenever they feel like.

>
But they can be offered cheaper rates to do it when the grid is less
heavily loaded.
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot,_Flat,_and_Crowded
>
spelled it all out back in 2008. Back then Thomas Friedman laid a lot of
emphasis on electric cars which are parked 95% of the time and
potentially available as a gigantic grid storage battery.

 Are the batteries in those cars designed to only accommodate the 5%
normal usage?  How would they cope with the constant charging and
discharging needed to stabilise the grid?

I don't know what the batteries in those car are designed to accommodate, and clearly neither do you. It's going to be a lot more than 5% of the capacity.
I don't think that they would be used for the short term charging and discharging involved in providing short term frequency control for the grid - the ambition seems to be have them there to provide emergency back-up when there's a substantial disruption.
If we all went over to electric cars the grid would have to provide about 30% more electric power than it does now. Granting that cars spend 95% of their, time parked, the parked cars could offer about 5 times as much power as the grid for a couple of hours.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney