Re: The Physics Behind the Spanish Blackout

On 11/06/2025 1:56 am, john larkin wrote:

On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 11:08:20 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
 

Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>

On 10/06/2025 10:04 am, john larkin wrote:

On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 16:37:28 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
wrote:
>

On 6/9/2025 1:44 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>

On 2025-06-09 21:54, Don Y wrote: > OTOH, we're sticking with other
technologies (fossil fuels -- coal -- and > nukes) despite obvious and
yet to be solved problems INHERENT in their > technology.  Adding
"inertia" synthetically to a network is a considerably > more
realistic goal than sorting out how to deal with nuclear waste or >
the consequences of burning carbon.
>
Solar and wind can be made to impose a gigantic inertia with
appropriate electronics. You can fixate the output at 50Hz, locked no
matter what.

>
Only if the surplus energy is available to supply the necessary
current.

>
But that assumes the old usage model where the utility was the "tail"
wagged by the consumer "dog".
>
Going forward, expect to see a closer integration of load and supply
management.  It's just silly to over-provision just to accommodate any
*possible* demand when technology exists to predict and manage that
demand.

>
Right. People shouldn't just be allowed to cook or do their laundry or
heat their houses whenever they feel like.

>
But they can be offered cheaper rates to do it when the grid is less
heavily loaded.
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot,_Flat,_and_Crowded
>
spelled it all out back in 2008. Back then Thomas Friedman laid a lot of
emphasis on electric cars which are parked 95% of the time and
potentially available as a gigantic grid storage battery.

>
Are the batteries in those cars designed to only accommodate the 5%
normal usage?  How would they cope with the constant charging and
discharging needed to stabilise the grid?

 If I had an electric car, I sure wouldn't want it to be used "to
stabilise the grid" and be left without transport when the lights are
off.

You do seem to be prey to irrational anxieties.

google   lithium battery fire australia
 The AI thing says
 Lithium-ion battery fires are a growing concern in Australia, with
authorities reporting a surge in incidents and increased risks. More
than 1,000 fires were caused by lithium-ion batteries across Australia
in the past year. Fire and Rescue NSW has referred to lithium-ion
batteries as the "fastest-growing fire risk" in the state, responding
to 272 battery-related fires in 2023

Most of them involving cheap electric bikes and electric scooters, with inadequate battery condition monitoring.
Rupert Murdoch owns a lot of Australian newspapers, and they publish a lot of stories that keep the fossil carbon industry happy. Electric cars catch on fire much less often than gasoline powered cars, but his newspapers make a lot of fuss about every electric car fire they can find.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney