Re: Somewheres

On Thu, 5 Sep 2024, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

Christian Weisgerber wrote:
 

Also, endings can be lost in specific grammatical contexts while
persisting elsewhere.  Since the reduction of vowels in final
syllables to [ə] between Old and Middle High German, there hasn't
been a general change affecting endings in German, I think.  However,
people who studied German as a foreign language are probably very
aware of the masculine/neuter singular strong dative -e, e.g. "mit
dem Kind(e)".

 

I don't know if I *studied* German when learning it in school and later
reading in d.e.s.d, but until now I didn't know about that dative form.
I don't think that I have met it in songs either.

I cite from my summary of German declension: https://hhr-m.de/de-decl/
(not a scientific work, only a summary of Usenet discussions about German):

  The usage of the optional -e ending for mn-D case and of the -es instead of
  the -s ending for mn-G case normally occurs only with words of German
  origin ending with a stressed root syllable. It is not possible with words
  with a schwa ending, with a diminutive ending -chen or -lein, with an
  unstressed foreign ending or with a full vowel other than a diphthong at
  the word end. In the remaining cases (foreign words, other words with
  unstressed last syllable, words ending with stressed diphthong at the word
  end), it is very uncommon but occurs here and there.

  When a final [s] sound in the uninflected noun would render the genitive -s
  inaudible, that is, with words ending with -s, -ss, -ß, -z, -tz, -x, German
  words and foreign words stressed on the last syllable mandatorily get an
  -es ending (des Gases, des Rosses, des Kreuzes, des Schatzes, des
  Hindernisses, des Kolosses, des Kompromisses) whereas words with unstressed
  foreign ending get no genitive ending at all (des Status, des Mythos, des
  Index) with exceptions only when the word is no longer perceived as foreign
  (des Busses, des Atlasses, des Zirkusses or des Zirkus). For other words as
  well, facilitation of pronunciation is an incentive of using the longer
  form with -es; in particular with lax plosives after long vowel at the word
  end (des Siebes, des Rades, des Tages). and with word-final consonant
  clusters ending with -sch, -t, or -d (des Barsches, des Mastes, des
  Hemdes). It is, however, neither mandatory for these words nor unusual for
  other words (des Tals or des Tales, des Kinns or des Kinnes).

  Where there is free choice between -s and -es genitive, usage of -es has a
  slight poetic or archaic touch. The always optional -e dative ending,
  however, is pronouncedly archaic; many speakers use it only in idioms,
  e.g. bei Lichte besehen ([seen] in the cold light of day), im Grunde
  (basically), zu Tage treten (outcrop), im rechtlichen Sinne (in the legal
  sense), in diesem Sinne (in this spirit).

--
Helmut Richter