Re: generally, borrowed words often happily coexist with native words, sometimes with a distinction of meaning.

On 28/06/2024 12:05 p.m., HenHanna wrote:

 how old is this Adam Funk?   40's  ?    50's ???
 does he always sound Stupid?
   >  > But I'm surprised there aren't native Japanese words for some of
 >  > these:
  

>
Re: Names of D&D-type monsters in Japanese
  by: Ross Clark - Wed, 26 Jun 2024 15:04
>
>
On 27/06/2024 1:16 a.m., Adam Funk wrote:
 > As I mentioned in another thread a few weeks ago, I've been watching
 > the _Delicious in Dungeon_ anime, with Japanese sound & English
 > subtitles. I noticed that a lot of the monsters & some other bits of
 > D&D-ish jargon are clearly Japanese adaptations of English words. I
 > clearly heard similar-sounding words for "undine" & "dungeon", and
 > I've also collected translations from the list of episode titles.
 >
 > It makes sense to me that they would adapt words for monsters from
 > "Western traditions":
 >
 >   basilisk = Bajirisuku
 >   orcs = Ōku
 >   kelpie = Kerupī
 >   dryad = Doraiado
 >   cockatrice = Kokatorisu
 >   harpy = Hāpī
 >   griffin = Gurifin
 >   golem = Gōremu
 >
 > and real foods of Western origin:
 >
 >   omelet = Omuretsu
 >   sorbet = Sorube
 >
 >
 > But I'm surprised there aren't native Japanese words for some of
 > these:
 >
 >   tentacles = Tentakurusu
 >   red dragon = Reddo Doragon [aren't dragons in Japanese tradition?
 >                               "reddo" looks suspicious]
 >   sea serpent = Shīsāpento
 >   shapeshifter = Sheipu Shifutā [could be translated]
 >   ice golem = Aisu Gōremu [I get golem but "aisu" looks suspicious]
 >
 >   dumplings = Danpuringu [why not "gyoza"?]
 >   bacon and eggs = Bēkon'Eggu [I get bacon but "egg" is "Tamago"
 >                                elsewhere]
 >
 >
 > Comments, ideas?
 >
>
>
These English borrowings are just naming monsters, after all -- they're
not replacing existing Japanese words.
>
>
More generally, borrowed words often happily coexist with native words,
sometimes with a distinction of meaning. I recommend a little book by
Akira Miura, _English Loanwords in Japanese: A Selection_ (Tuttle,
1979), which explains a lot of these.
>
>
Example: Japanese has /gyūnyū/ for 'cow's milk', but also /miruku/.
>
"...in the usage of many Japanese...gyūnyū is fresh milk whereas miruku
is either warm milk served with sugar at a coffee shop or powdered milk,
or condensed milk sold in a can"

  this explanation  sounds  outdated by 30+ years.

Could well be. Note the publication date of the book.
But how does it "sound outdated"? Because we now have a better explanation? or because Japanese usage has changed? Miura does note that some Japanese are actually using miruku in place of gyūnyū,

>
>
----------- i'd have expected  Ross Clark (a linguist)  to
              make a comment along the lines of...
>
              in English... (pig, pork)
>
       Cow (English) - Boeuf (French, meat)

 

       Sheep (English) - Mouton (French, meat)
>

Yes, and no doubt some people asked "Why should we borrow a French word when we already have a perfectly good word for sheep?"