Re: Somewheres

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Sujet : Re: Somewheres
De : snidely.too (at) *nospam* gmail.com (Snidely)
Groupes : alt.usage.english sci.lang
Date : 05. Sep 2024, 04:06:33
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Dis One
Message-ID : <mn.247a7e89dc4d832c.127094@snitoo>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
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Christian Weisgerber suggested that ...
On 2024-09-02, Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
>
Have you ever wondered why the third person plural present tense
forms of Italian verbs are so strangely stressed, e.g., pàrlano
instead of *parlàno?  And where is that -o from anyway?
>
So that was an example where something was added at the end of
words.  I don't intend this as an invalidation of the general
observation that there is a longtime trend of phonetic erosion, but
I want to show that actual language history is complex and circuitous.
>
Here's another one.  From the King James Version, you may be familiar
with the second person singular indicative ending -(e)st (-t in
some verbs), "thou thinkest" etc.  German also has -st across the
second person singular.  Clearly, -st is an old 2SG marker...
>
... Except, Slavic has -š there.  Latin, not a language to drop final
-t, has -s.  Even Gothic has -s, and if you look at the variants
in early Old English and Old High German, the original 2SG ending
is also -s.
>
Where did the -t come from?  There are two hypotheses.  One, dismissed
by Ringe (and I'm skeptical as well), is from missegmentation when
the subject pronoun (tu ~ þu) followed the verb.  The other involves
the appearance of -s-t due to sound changes in some preterite-present
verbs, reanalysis as -st, and spread to other verbs.  Remarkably,
this appears to have happened independently in both English and
German.
I relate all this discussion to what Charlton Laird (sr, IIRC) considered two fundamental principles of language change:
1)  People are lazy, leading to simplification.
2)  People are inventive, leading to new words and new constructions.
/dps
--
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 In case of fire, exit the building before tweeting about it.
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Date Sujet#  Auteur
2 Sep 24 * Re: Somewheres36Peter Moylan
2 Sep 24 +* Re: Somewheres5Bertel Lund Hansen
2 Sep 24 i`* Re: Somewheres4Adam Funk
2 Sep 24 i `* Re: Somewheres3Bertel Lund Hansen
3 Sep 24 i  `* Re: Somewheres2Adam Funk
3 Sep 24 i   `- Re: Somewheres1Bertel Lund Hansen
2 Sep 24 +* Re: Somewheres3Adam Funk
2 Sep 24 i`* Re: Somewheres2Bertel Lund Hansen
3 Sep 24 i `- Re: Somewheres1Adam Funk
2 Sep 24 +* Re: Somewheres16Christian Weisgerber
2 Sep 24 i`* Re: Somewheres15jerryfriedman
2 Sep 24 i +* Re: Somewheres11jerryfriedman
4 Sep 24 i i`* Re: Somewheres10Christian Weisgerber
4 Sep 24 i i +* Re: Somewheres4Sergio Gatti
5 Sep 24 i i i`* Re: Somewheres3Christian Weisgerber
6 Sep 24 i i i `* Re: Somewheres2Sergio Gatti
14 Sep17:57 i i i  `- Re: Somewheres1Christian Weisgerber
5 Sep 24 i i `* Re: Somewheres5Bertel Lund Hansen
5 Sep 24 i i  +- Re: Somewheres1Aidan Kehoe
5 Sep 24 i i  `* Re: Somewheres3Helmut Richter
5 Sep 24 i i   `* Re: Somewheres2Bertel Lund Hansen
5 Sep 24 i i    `- Re: Somewheres1Helmut Richter
4 Sep 24 i `* Re: Somewheres3Christian Weisgerber
5 Sep 24 i  `* Re: Somewheres2jerryfriedman
14 Sep15:59 i   `- Re: Somewheres1Christian Weisgerber
2 Sep 24 +* Re: Somewheres4Christian Weisgerber
3 Sep 24 i+- Re: Somewheres1Silvano
4 Sep 24 i`* Re: Somewheres2Christian Weisgerber
5 Sep 24 i `- Re: Somewheres1Snidely
3 Sep 24 `* Re: Somewheres7Bertel Lund Hansen
3 Sep 24  `* Re: Somewheres6Helmut Richter
3 Sep 24   `* Re: Somewheres5Bertel Lund Hansen
3 Sep 24    `* Re: Somewheres4J. J. Lodder
4 Sep 24     `* Re: Somewheres3Bertel Lund Hansen
5 Sep 24      `* Re: Somewheres2Adam Funk
5 Sep 24       `- Re: Somewheres1Bertel Lund Hansen

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