Re: Meanwhile...

Op 31/01/2025 om 12:46 schreef Ruud Harmsen:

Sun, 26 Jan 2025 00:04:02 +0100: guido wugi <wugi@brol.invalid>
scribeva:
>

Op 24/01/2025 om 21:37 schreef Stefan Ram:

guido wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> wrote or quoted:

In the page of the location itself the pronunciation [la alta???asja],
typically ignoring the different a-sounds for Spanish (as they're not
phonemic but only phonetic, or non-existing altogether for some
unwilling ears).

    Even Canepari only sees an [a] sound there in phonetic
    transcription.
>
    But then he's like, hold up, if you really zero in, you can
    tell apart [[a?]] (advanced), [[a?]] (retracted), and [[a?]]
    (raised). He drops some examples that'll make your ears perk up:
>
    mirra, caña, alto, and junta.

I'm happy with two, a short and a longish. Much as Latin is pronounced. So:
Alta Gra:cia. Anda:r.

So dynamic stress also comes with some length?
>

There's also two kinds of e, and vowel length variation for all.
My wife and family say mu:cho:, like du:ro: but burro:.

Part of that also explainable by stress. And because the rr is longer
and more intensive, there is less time left for the u. I suppose.
>

Burro: but burros.
Things like that. Ignored or denied by youknowwho anyway. But obvious
in, eg, Argentina, well, not by everybody but they're there alright.

I attribute it to vulgar-latin inheritance, such as we still pronounce it.
Stress comes into it, and consonant lengths, but not only.
My wife and our family and acquaintances there say, eg,
mu:cho and trucho.
un évènto. Péro and pèrro.
So much for distinguishing only five vowels and no length difference. Admittedly without meaning content (=phonetic, not phonemic), but there alright. Yet it's also true that in Iberic (and some Argentines') speech I hear much less variation (apart from the é/è one, always there).
--
guido wugi
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guido wugi