Re: Gun Violence Archive

On 5/31/2025 12:03 PM, a425couple wrote:

On 5/31/25 09:07, Hut-Sut Ralson wrote:

As of today, May 31, 2025, the Gun Violence Archive reports 5,963
gun-related deaths in the United States for the year 2025. This
includes homicides, unintentional shootings, and DGW (death by gunshot
wound) in general.  These are all based on findings by (at least) a
medical examiner who is a sworn "finder of fact".  IOW, the finding
holds unless compelling contradictory evidence is introduced and
documented.
>
As of today, May 31, 2025, there have been zero documented defensive
gun uses in the United States for the year 2025.  You might notice
that I avoid the acronym "DGU", popularized by Dr Kleck's '90s surveys
where the researcher defines a "DGU" as an answer to an anonymous
telephone survey... if it's your survey, you may define it any way you
wish.  To be a "defensive gun use", the incident must be tested by the
scientific method resulting in a finding by a "finder of fact", such
as a judge, medical examiner... a police report that entered a
specific finding stating that it was, in fact, an act of self defense
would work if the finding were explicit.
>
News media reports don't count for either.
>
Given the massive number of DGW in the US, one can apply the "space
alien argument" that goes: "If there are 100K UFO sightings, only
*one* has to be a real spaceship full of extraterrestrial space aliens
for them to exist... and there's likely one valid defensive gun use,
but we can't put a probability on it.
>

You falsify the documents to get the results you want.
 
Good guy with gun stops downtown shooter, cold!
 
see the TV newsbroadcast
https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/armed-civilian-kills-teen-suspect-downtown-seattle-shooting/281-5f9b926f-7561-4e12-8cee-2280bb6c7ee6
 
Armed civilian kills teen suspect after downtown Seattle shooting
Police said the teen shot two people before he encountered a 57-year-old
man licensed to carry a firearm, who then shot the teen.
 
Next up in 5
KING 5 News at Noon
 
Author: Bridget Chavez
Published: 5:57 PM PDT May 29, 2025
Updated: 8:06 PM PDT May 29, 2025
Facebook
SEATTLE — A legally armed civilian shot and killed a 16-year-old boy
Wednesday night after the teen allegedly opened fire on two people in
downtown Seattle, according to police.
 
The shooting happened just after 10 p.m. near First Avenue and Union
Street. Police said the teen shot two people before he encountered a
57-year-old man licensed to carry a firearm, who then shot the teen.
 
“One individual produced a weapon, fired on the two individuals and then
began to flee the scene,” said Seattle Police Chief Shon Barnes. “When
he did, he encountered a private citizen that was licensed to carry and
that private citizen fired his weapon, striking the suspect.”
 
The teen, along with both shooting victims, was taken to Harborview
Medical Center, where the 16-year-old later died. One of the victims has
since been released from the hospital, while the other remains in
satisfactory condition, police said.
 
Barnes said the teen’s weapon was recovered at the scene. The
57-year-old man who opened fire is cooperating with the investigation
and is not currently considered a suspect.
 
Detectives are still working to determine what led up to the shooting
and whether the victims and the suspect knew each other.
 
“We need people to have cooler heads to prevail,” Barnes said. “People
who are carrying weapons — just know that our officers are out here, we
are doing proactive patrols.”
 
KING 5 law enforcement analyst John Urquhart says the case is likely
being viewed through the lens of Washington’s self-defense laws.
 
“Washington is what they call a ‘no duty to retreat’ state,” Urquhart
said. “Other states call it ‘stand your ground.’ The idea is exactly the
same — when a person is confronted by a bad guy, he is not required to
back away or run away.”
 
Urquhart added that the timing and proximity of the shooting will be key
in determining whether the use of deadly force was legally justified.
 
“Did he intervene when the suspect was running away and a block away —
or when the suspect was still on scene and clearly armed?” he said. “The
fact that the citizen was not arrested, was not booked, is not being
described as a suspect, leads me to believe Seattle police see this as a
legal and justified use of force. But again, they don’t make the final
decision — the prosecutor’s office does.”
 
 
Seattle police are asking anyone with information about the incident to
call their Violent Crimes Tip Line at 206-233-5000.
 
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>
I always thought this was a good one.
>
Armed civilian neutralized Indiana mall shooter in just 15 seconds,
authorities say
>
""The time lapse between the moment that Jonathan Sapirman exited the
restroom and began shooting, and when he was shot by the civilian
(Elisjsha Dicken) was only fifteen seconds, not two minutes," Greenwood
Police Chief James Ison said in a statement. "The surveillance video
shows Sapirman exit the restroom at 5:56:48pm. He was neutralized by
Dicken at 5:57:03 pm."
>
A preliminary autopsy report released Tuesday said Sapirman was shot
eight times and died from his wounds."
>
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/indiana-mall-shooting-elisjsha-dicken-neutralized-gunman-15-seconds/

That's fine; however, those are all media reports.  All we know is
what the reporter was told... I'm not knocking it, but we do *not*
know what happened.  When the investigation is final, however, a
completely different story will frequently emerge... or an incomplete
one, since one of the actors is many timed dead.

A news story gives you the version they had at that time.  And, even
in media stories, the writer will *never* state unequivocally that the
act was self defense.

If you look at some of the other accounts, you find the altercation
between the teens happened at First & Pike, then the shooter ran, then
the "armed citizen" shot him at First & Union, a block south.  An
alternate explanation might be a dope rip-off, then the enforced took
over... that actually makes more sense than an armed citizen defending
his own life.  He won't be charged, but it you don't have an act of
self defense yet.

Jones