On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 3:37:09 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
I am publishing an AAPC poetry journal featuring award-winning poets.
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Can you say vanity press?
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A vanity press charges a "reading" or "submission" fee.
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Do you pay in contributors copies?
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Almost. I don't receive any money for them. They're sold at cost.
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So... no.
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After Jim and Stephan became engaged in a prolonged flamewar, both on
and
off the Sampler, the second thing you did was start flooding the group
with
a nasty, libellous document that NG had written.
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Oh yes, the last resort, flood the newsgroup with your lies and
misrepresentations.
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There was no such "libellous[sic]" document
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George Dance saw it differently.
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He certainly spelled it differently.
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"There is no 'fact' of 'statutory rape'. 'Morality' -- like
'gnosticism', 'god', haKodesh Barukh hu, 'mysticism' -- are NOT
definable, and for you to keep transposing your stultifying
proto-fascism onto others is not accepted by me."
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"The 'incest taboo' cannot be predicated on known biology, but is a
human sociopolitical category."
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"Shalom & Erev tov, everyone...PaederastDeSock knows nothing of the
mother of my 2 children now in Yisra'el. Neither does NaziQueene whose
psychopathy is documented here. He is attempting to equate '14' with
immaturity, or infancy. This is how he mangles reality. They were adults
in the eyes of halakhah...which FakeJewMikey is decidedly not."
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Grim times for the poetry newsgroup indeed.
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Pick didn't belong here.
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There's no guidelines on who we "allow" to be here.
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Stephan Pickering knew poetry and made many good poetry posts.
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Wrong
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I don't agree.
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The only poetry he posted here
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Pretty good poetry, as I recall.
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The only poems he "wrote" were
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Not true, Stephan Pickering has written some interesting poems over the
years.
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Wrong.
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I don't agree.
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A.A. Milne wrote some interesting tales about "The House a Pooh
Corner" which Pickles plagiarized by sticking a "Kosher" in front of
Piglet's name and claiming as his own on the grounds of "creative
adaption."
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That was an interesting work actually.
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The original? Definitely.
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The Kosher Kopy? Not at all.
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It worked as a National Lampoon or Mad Magazine type satire or parody,
at least.
You really need to look up what "satire" and "parody" mean.
The third thing you did, a month or so of that, when Jim and Stephan
were thoroughly
engaged with each other, you went deep diving outside the group for
information on NAMBLA, and found a quotation from Allan Ginsberg
("I have never had sex with anyone under 15"
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The youngest sex partner Allen Ginsberg is known to have was the 18-19
year old man
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14 or 15 according to other sources.
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Can you link to these alleged sources?
I had done so when discussing the matter with Pickles, several years
ago. If you want to sort through the archives, there's a good chance
that you'll find them. I've got better things to do with my time.
And later it turns out the youngest sex partner Allen Ginsberg is known
to have was an 18-19 year old man.
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14.
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Can you link to any real evidence of this?
See above.
And sorry, but I haven't any photos of him in flagrante delicto, if
that's what you're hoping for.
No, he was 18 and then turned 19.
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It depends on the source.
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Unless something new has surfaced, there's zero evidence.
IIRC, Ginsberg tacitly admitted it in one or more interviews.
Bear in mind that statutory rape is a criminal offence, and no one is
going to publicly confess to a crime.*
*Okay, Pickles claimed that he'd statutorily raped two 14-year olds, but
Pickles was batshit crazy, and probably made the whole thing up.
There's an interview with the fellow, I don't remember his name right
now.
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I have to walk my dog for a while.
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(To be Continued)
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posting here, calling Ginsberg a "pedophile" (or predator);
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Which, from the evidence, wasn't true, as shown above.
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Again, more on this later.
Just google "Ginsberg" + "pedophile" (or one of a dozen other related
terms like "sex with minors," "statutory rape," "14-year old boys," etc.
You'll turn up plenty of results.
Half of the articles claim that he did, the other half claim that he
didn't.
Based on his association with NAMBLA, only his most diehard fans would
refuse to believe it.
At this point, it's pretty much become a "given."
and then
when others objected to that (like Stephan, Will, or myself), you began
calling those people "pedophiles" as well.
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That's when the bullshit from Pendragon began to get heavy.
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Most likely Jim had condemned Ginsberg as
a child molester
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Which wasn't actually true, by all evidence.
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Not statements but actual evidence.
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I looked twenty years ago and found no actual evidence, more on this
layer.
How many women do you claim to have had sex with, Donkey?
And apart from your posts ("statements"), how much evidence do you think
you could turn up online?
Ginsberg was a supporter and member of the North American Man/Boy Love
Association (NAMBLA), a pedophilia and pederasty advocacy organization
in the United States that works to abolish age of consent laws and
legalize sexual relations between adults and children.[124][citation
needed] Saying that he joined the organization "in defense of free
speech",[125] Ginsberg stated: "Attacks on NAMBLA stink of politics,
witchhunting for profit, humorlessness, vanity, anger and ignorance ...
I'm a member of NAMBLA because I love boys too—everybody does, who has a
little humanity".[126] In 1994, Ginsberg appeared in a documentary on
NAMBLA called Chicken Hawk: Men Who Love Boys (playing on the gay male
slang term 'chickenhawk'), in which he read a "graphic ode to
youth".[124] He read his poem "Sweet Boy, Gimme Yr Ass" from the book
Mind Breaths.[127]
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More re on this later, see below.
Let me guess... you're going to claim that his poem, "Sweet Boy, Gimme
Yr Ass" was written to an 80-year old.
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In her 2002 book Heartbreak, Andrea Dworkin claimed Ginsberg had
ulterior motives for allying with NAMBLA:
In 1982, newspapers reported in huge headlines that the Supreme Court
had ruled child pornography illegal. I was thrilled. I knew Allen would
not be. I did think he was a civil libertarian. But, in fact, he was a
pedophile. He did not belong to the North American Man/Boy Love
Association out of some mad, abstract conviction that its voice had to
be heard. He meant it. I take this from what Allen said directly to me,
not from some inference I made. He was exceptionally aggressive about
his right to fuck children and his constant pursuit of underage
boys.[128]
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There was a bitter feud between Ginsberg and this person, I don't
remember the details but Dworkin was said to have no evidence that
Ginsberg had actually made those statements.
I find it difficult (read impossible) to believe that anyone who wasn't
a pedophile would affiliate themselves with NAMBLA. It's pretty much a
no-brainer (which would certainly explain stance).
I'll have to research this again, since I haven't read the details in
over twenty years.
The general consensus is that Ginsberg was openly gay, and openly
attracted to underage boys. Whether he actually had sex with them is
unknown (although various partners aged 14-17 are often named). He was
also a member of NAMBLA, and campaigned to have the legal age laws
repealed (making sex between adults and children legal).
Isn't that enough?
and Pickering (who worshipped Ginsberg) spazzed.
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That is a fair summary of what I just said, though you left out that you
(and Jim)
were calling Stephan a child molester as well. No one appreciates being
called names like that by cowardly trolls on the internet.
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Which led to Tit for Tat behavior over time.
It wasn't really tit for tat. We called Pickles a child molester
because he claimed to have deflowered two 14-year old girls when he was
somewhere between the ages of 17-19. Jim and I have never made any such
claims.
Again, I remember that.
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At that point Pendragon and Senetto were trying any dirty trick to drive
Stephan Pickering away from this newsgroup.
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And so it goes.
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I doubt you'll argue this, Pendragon, since you once bragged about doing
this in the 1950s music group.
I never made any such boast, Donkey.
I bragged about torturing the living bejeezus out of PhillyGuy for fun
and amusement. I never made up anything to win an argument there.
I researched, and posted, historical sources for every argument I made. In fact, I got so good at researching 50s music, that I eventually wrote
a 2 volume book on the topic:
https://www.amazon.com/MUSIC-Definitive-History-American-Popular/dp/B08D4VRR83/refhttps://www.amazon.com/Music-Two-Definitive-American-1964-1964/dp/B08F6CGF5S?refPickles claimed to have deflowered two 14-year old girls.
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Whether he actually did so is unknown, as he has been unequivocally
shown to be a pathological liar.
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Nevertheless, according to his own admission, he was a child molester
and statutory rapist.
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I remember reading his posts about this but it seemed to be in the
context of his cultural situation, I confess I don't remember the
complicated details of that story.
You may not, but I do.
When he was a high school senior, he deflowered a 14-year old South
American Jewish girl. Her parents, who he claimed were Orthodox, had
supposedly intended an arranged marriage for their daughter with him.
This is highly suspicious on several counts: 1) Orthodox Jews who
arrange marriages for their children usually go to a matchmaker; 2) they
would also ensure that their daughter had a chaperone whenever she and
Pickles were together; 3) they would not have had any reason for wanting
to bring a penniless boy whose violent, alcoholic father had been shot
by his mother-in-law into their family; 4) they most certainly would
*NOT* under any circumstances, have fixed her up with a non-Jew. (This
was long before Pick's alleged self-conversion.) Pick's father *may*
have been Jewish (Pick never said), but Jewish identity is determined
along matriarchal lines (that is, through the mother).
Orthodox Jews cannot marry non-Jews. If an Orthodox Jew's daughter
marries a "goy" (a non-Jew) her parents must sit Shiva for her (hold the
equivalent of a wake), cut off all ties with her, and consider her as
being dead to them.
The second statutory rape supposedly occurred in Israel -- a year or two
after Pickles graduated high school. He claims that he impregnated, and
then married, this woman. However, Pickle's correspondence to Forrest
Ackerman firmly establishes that he was in Los Angeles at the time.
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