Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC

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Sujet : Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC
De : anton (at) *nospam* mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Groupes : comp.arch
Date : 01. Mar 2025, 18:59:51
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID : <2025Mar1.185951@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
References : 1 2
User-Agent : xrn 10.11
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:
If you sent, e.g., me and the needed documents back in
time to the start of the VAX project, and gave me a magic wand that
would convince the DEC management and workforce that I know how to
design their next architecture, and how to compiler for it, I would
give the implementation team RV32GC as architecture to implement, and
that they should use pipelining for that, and of course also give that
to the software people.

There was also the question of PDP-11 compatibility.  I would solve
that by adding a PDP-11 decoder that produces RV32G instructions (or
maybe the microcode that the RV32G decoder produces).  Low-end models
may get a dynamic binary translator instead.

OTOH, DEC had great success with the VAX for a while, and their demise
may have been unavoidable given their market position: Their customers
(especially the business customers of VAXen) went to them instead of
IBM, because they wanted something less costly, and they continued
onwards to PCs running Linux when they provided something less costly.
So DEC would also have needed to outcompete Intel and the PC market to
succeed (and IBM eventually got out of that market).

OTOH, HP was also a big player in the mini and later workstation
market, and they managed to survive, albeit by eventually splitting
themselves into HPE for the big iron, and the other part for the PCs
and printers.  But it may be the exception that proves the rule.

- anton
--
'Anyone trying for "industrial quality" ISA should avoid undefined behavior.'
  Mitch Alsup, <c17fcd89-f024-40e7-a594-88a85ac10d20o@googlegroups.com>

Date Sujet#  Auteur
1 Mar 25 * Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC230Lawrence D'Oliveiro
1 Mar 25 +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC220Anton Ertl
1 Mar 25 i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC25MitchAlsup1
1 Mar 25 ii+- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Thomas Koenig
2 Mar 25 ii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC23Anton Ertl
2 Mar 25 ii +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC6Robert Swindells
2 Mar 25 ii i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC4Anton Ertl
5 Mar 25 ii ii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3Robert Swindells
6 Mar 25 ii ii `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
6 Mar 25 ii ii  `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
2 Mar 25 ii i`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lynn Wheeler
2 Mar 25 ii +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC4MitchAlsup1
2 Mar 25 ii i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
3 Mar 25 ii i `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2MitchAlsup1
3 Mar 25 ii i  `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2 Mar 25 ii +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1BGB
3 Mar 25 ii `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC11Anton Ertl
3 Mar 25 ii  +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC9Thomas Koenig
3 Mar 25 ii  i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC8Anton Ertl
5 Mar 25 ii  i `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC7Thomas Koenig
6 Mar 25 ii  i  `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC6Thomas Koenig
8 Mar 25 ii  i   `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC5Anton Ertl
8 Mar 25 ii  i    +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
9 Mar 25 ii  i    `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3Torbjorn Lindgren
9 Mar 25 ii  i     `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2MitchAlsup1
9 Mar 25 ii  i      `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Thomas Koenig
4 Mar 25 ii  `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Anton Ertl
1 Mar 25 i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Anton Ertl
2 Mar 25 ii`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Keith Thompson
1 Mar 25 i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC160John Levine
1 Mar 25 ii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC159Anton Ertl
2 Mar 25 ii +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC6Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2 Mar 25 ii i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC5Anton Ertl
2 Mar 25 ii i +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
3 Mar 25 ii i i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Anton Ertl
4 Mar 25 ii i i `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2 Mar 25 ii i `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
2 Mar 25 ii +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lynn Wheeler
2 Mar 25 ii `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC151John Levine
2 Mar 25 ii  +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2 Mar 25 ii  `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC149Anton Ertl
3 Mar 25 ii   +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC6John Levine
3 Mar 25 ii   i+- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
3 Mar 25 ii   i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC4Anton Ertl
3 Mar 25 ii   i +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Michael S
3 Mar 25 ii   i i`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Anton Ertl
4 Mar 25 ii   i `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
3 Mar 25 ii   +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3Thomas Koenig
3 Mar 25 ii   i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Anton Ertl
3 Mar 25 ii   i `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1BGB
3 Mar 25 ii   `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC139MarkC
3 Mar 25 ii    `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC138Anton Ertl
3 Mar 25 ii     +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC135Thomas Koenig
4 Mar 25 ii     i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC134Lawrence D'Oliveiro
4 Mar 25 ii     i +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1BGB
4 Mar 25 ii     i `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC132Anton Ertl
5 Mar 25 ii     i  `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC131Lawrence D'Oliveiro
5 Mar 25 ii     i   `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC130Anton Ertl
6 Mar 25 ii     i    +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3John Levine
7 Mar 25 ii     i    i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Lynn Wheeler
8 Mar 25 ii     i    i `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Thomas Koenig
7 Mar 25 ii     i    `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC126Waldek Hebisch
7 Mar 25 ii     i     +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC123Lawrence D'Oliveiro
7 Mar 25 ii     i     i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC66BGB
7 Mar 25 ii     i     ii+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC61MitchAlsup1
7 Mar 25 ii     i     iii+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Robert Finch
7 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
7 Mar 25 ii     i     iii+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC55BGB
7 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii+- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
8 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC53Robert Finch
8 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC52BGB
8 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii  `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC51MitchAlsup1
9 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii   +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
10 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii   `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC49BGB
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii    +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii    i`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1BGB
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii    `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC46MitchAlsup1
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC40Robert Finch
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC7BGB
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     ii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC6MitchAlsup1
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     ii `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC5Terje Mathisen
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     ii  +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1David Schultz
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     ii  `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     ii   `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Anton Ertl
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     ii    `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC32MitchAlsup1
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC31Stephen Fuld
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC6MitchAlsup1
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC4Stephen Fuld
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  ii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  ii `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2BGB
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  ii  `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  i`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1BGB
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC15moi
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC12Stephen Fuld
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  ii+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC10Lawrence D'Oliveiro
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  iii+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC6BGB
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  iiii+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  iiiii`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Stephen Fuld
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  iiii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3MitchAlsup1
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  iiii `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2BGB
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  iii+- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  iii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Anton Ertl
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  ii`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1moi
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2MitchAlsup1
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC4John Levine
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3Anton Ertl
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC5BGB
7 Mar 25 ii     i     iii+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2MitchAlsup1
8 Mar 25 ii     i     iii`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1BGB
7 Mar 25 ii     i     ii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC4Robert Finch
7 Mar 25 ii     i     i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC4MitchAlsup1
7 Mar 25 ii     i     i+- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
11 Mar 25 ii     i     i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC51Waldek Hebisch
7 Mar 25 ii     i     `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Michael S
3 Mar 25 ii     `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Robert Swindells
1 Mar 25 i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC28BGB
2 Mar 25 i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
5 Mar 25 i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Stefan Monnier
1 Mar 25 +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
2 Mar 25 +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC5Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2 Mar 25 +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
5 Mar 25 `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Theo

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