Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond

Liste des GroupesRevenir à c arch 
Sujet : Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond
De : mitchalsup (at) *nospam* aol.com (MitchAlsup1)
Groupes : comp.arch
Date : 03. Jun 2024, 23:47:05
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Rocksolid Light
Message-ID : <72661b952b48d0404b59832c362d1537@www.novabbs.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
User-Agent : Rocksolid Light
Scott Lurndal wrote:

"Stephen Fuld" <SFuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> writes:
Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
  The ARM neoverse cores, for example, require very little area.
>
Agreed.  I was assuming that the cost of the logic was about the same
whether it was done as CPU instructions or a chunk of accelerator logic
in the I/O stream.  If that is true, then the cost of having multiples
of them in the I/O stream is small.

Although the accelerator requires addition logic to interface
to the CPUs (either by presenting as a memory mapped device,
integrated into the processor register scheme, or some other
proprietary mechanism).  Which means non-standard software is
required to manage and use the accelerator.
First consider that it is possible for an I/O device to DMA directly
to another I/O device in the PCIe routing tree/DAG.
Then, consider that with this infrastructure, you could DMA from
memory through the Cryptor and back to memory (or anywhere you wanted it).

>
>
>
 
From the operating software standpoint, it becomes most
convenient, then, to model the offload as a device which
requires OS support (and intervention for e.g. interrupt
handling).
  I look at it differently (and perhaps incorrectly).  I view
encryption as one of several "transformations" that data goes
through in its path to/from some external device.
 That's certainly a valid view, if perhaps not complete.   There are
use cases for in-place encryption.
>
Good.  Can you give some examples, and perhaps an estimate of what
percentage of the total encryption operations are in place?  Note that
it may be possible to add a feature to the "in-stream" hardware to
allow in-place encryption - i.e. both sides go to/come from memory.
Different users want their files encrypted using different keys than any other user--where file could be memory resident (or not).

Consider file access.   From the perspective of the disk, all blocks
are identical - it doesn't know which partition, filesystem, or file
that any individual block is part of, if any.

Whole-disk encryption can happen at the drive.    Per-file (or
per-filesystem) happens in the filesystem driver(s), perhaps
with a hardware assist, but it wouldn't be on the path from
the disk to memory.
You may be correct in how it is now--but if the device has encryption
services why can they not be applied sector by sector ??

There are cases where only a portion of a file is encrypted, and
cases where the encryption is combined with compression (pkzip,
rar, etc).

>
>
>
Adding encryption (which of the dozen standard symmetric and
asymmetric cipher algoritnms?) to a hardware device does increase
complexity, and thus cost at the expense of extensibility (new
algorithms come along periodically).
>
Agreed.  But this is also true for new CPU instructions.

An hardware accelerator could, for example, be microcoded
rather than using hard logic to future-proof it.

>
>
 The cost of verifying crypto is
a bit higher as it is very important to get correct when baking into
gates.
Verifying encryption is not harder than verifying IEEE 754
instructions.

>
>
Sure,  And I expect it is also higher because of the extra security
precautions against side attacks, etc.

Timing attacks, in particular.
All the more reason to run encryption through a device where you cannot
measure time accurately. I/O fits this bill very well. It seems to me
that
as long as the system can maintain the cryption throughput all should
be
well.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
1 May 24 * Byte Addressability And Beyond590Lawrence D'Oliveiro
1 May 24 +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond431John Levine
1 May 24 i+* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond409Lawrence D'Oliveiro
1 May 24 ii+* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond3John Levine
1 May 24 iii+- Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond1John Levine
1 May 24 iii`- Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
1 May 24 ii+- Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond1Michael S
1 May 24 ii`* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond404John Levine
2 May 24 ii +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond382Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2 May 24 ii i+* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond4John Levine
2 May 24 ii ii`* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2 May 24 ii ii `* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond2John Levine
5 May 24 ii ii  `- Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2 May 24 ii i+* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond367John Savard
2 May 24 ii ii+* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond2MitchAlsup1
11 May 24 ii iii`- Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond1John Savard
4 May 24 ii ii`* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond364Lawrence D'Oliveiro
8 May 24 ii ii `* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond363John Savard
8 May 24 ii ii  +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
10 May 24 ii ii  i`- Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond1David Brown
8 May 24 ii ii  `* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond360MitchAlsup1
8 May 24 ii ii   `* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond359John Levine
8 May 24 ii ii    +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond357Lawrence D'Oliveiro
9 May 24 ii ii    i`* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond356John Levine
10 May 24 ii ii    i +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond354David Brown
10 May 24 ii ii    i i`* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond353Anton Ertl
11 May 24 ii ii    i i `* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond352David Brown
11 May 24 ii ii    i i  `* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond351Anton Ertl
11 May 24 ii ii    i i   +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond158David Brown
11 May 24 ii ii    i i   i+- Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond1Anton Ertl
27 May 24 ii ii    i i   i`* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond156Lawrence D'Oliveiro
27 May 24 ii ii    i i   i `* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond155John Levine
27 May 24 ii ii    i i   i  `* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond154Lawrence D'Oliveiro
27 May 24 ii ii    i i   i   `* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond153John Levine
27 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond149John Levine
27 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i+- Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond1MitchAlsup1
28 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i`* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond147Lawrence D'Oliveiro
28 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i +- Re: encoding conversion, Byte Addressability And Beyond1John Levine
28 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i `* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond145Thomas Koenig
29 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond137Lawrence D'Oliveiro
29 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i`* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond136Anton Ertl
29 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond12Stefan Monnier
29 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i i+* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond10Stefan Monnier
29 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii+* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond3John Levine
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii`* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond2George Neuner
4 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii `- Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond1George Neuner
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii`* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond6Anton Ertl
4 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii +- Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
4 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii `* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond4Stefan Monnier
7 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  +- Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond1Terje Mathisen
7 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  `* Re: Character non-equivalence, was Byte Addressability And Beyond2John Levine
9 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii   `- Re: Character non-equivalence, was Byte Addressability And Beyond1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i i`- Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond117Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i i+* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond66John Levine
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii+- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1Stephen Fuld
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii+* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond22Anton Ertl
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii`* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond21Thomas Koenig
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii +* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond8Michael S
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii i+- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1Thomas Koenig
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii i+* Re: IBM architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond5John Levine
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii ii+* Re: IBM architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond2Michael S
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii iii`- Re: IBM architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1John Levine
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii ii`* Re: IBM architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond2Thomas Koenig
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii ii `- Re: IBM architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1John Levine
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii i`- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1Anton Ertl
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii +* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond3Anton Ertl
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii i+- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1John Levine
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii i`- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1Thomas Koenig
31 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii +* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond5Terje Mathisen
1 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii i`* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond4Thomas Koenig
1 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii i `* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond3Anton Ertl
2 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii i  `* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond2John Levine
4 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii i   `- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1Stefan Monnier
4 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii `* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond4Lawrence D'Oliveiro
4 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii  +- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1MitchAlsup1
4 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii  +- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1Lynn Wheeler
4 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i iii  `- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1Stefan Monnier
31 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii`* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond42John Savard
31 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii `* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond41John Levine
1 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  +* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond31John Savard
1 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  i+* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond20Thomas Koenig
2 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  ii+* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond6John Savard
2 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  iii`* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond5Thomas Koenig
2 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  iii +* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond3John Levine
3 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  iii i`* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond2OrangeFish
3 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  iii i `- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1John Levine
4 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  iii `- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
4 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  ii`* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond13Lawrence D'Oliveiro
5 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  ii `* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond12Lawrence D'Oliveiro
5 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  ii  +- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
6 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  ii  `* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond10George Neuner
6 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  ii   +* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond6John Levine
7 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  ii   i+* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond4Lawrence D'Oliveiro
7 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  ii   ii`* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond3Stephen Fuld
7 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  ii   ii `* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
7 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  ii   ii  `- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1Stephen Fuld
7 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  ii   i`- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1Terje Mathisen
6 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  ii   +- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1Lynn Wheeler
6 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  ii   +- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1OrangeFish
7 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  ii   `- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  i`* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond10John Dallman
2 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  +- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1Michael S
2 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  +- Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond1John Dallman
4 Jun 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i ii  `* Re: architectural goals, Byte Addressability And Beyond7Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i i+* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond49Stephen Fuld
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i i`- Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond1Anton Ertl
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  i `* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond4Terje Mathisen
30 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    i  `* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond7Terje Mathisen
28 May 24 ii ii    i i   i    `* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
12 May 24 ii ii    i i   +* Re: python text, Byte Addressability And Beyond14John Levine
12 May 24 ii ii    i i   `* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond178Thomas Koenig
27 May 24 ii ii    i `- Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
8 May 24 ii ii    `- Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond1Michael S
2 May 24 ii i`* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond10MitchAlsup1
2 May 24 ii +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond3Michael S
2 May 24 ii `* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond18Anton Ertl
1 May 24 i+* Byte Order (was: Byte Addressability And Beyond)4Anton Ertl
1 May 24 i`* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond17Stefan Monnier
1 May 24 +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond40MitchAlsup1
1 May 24 +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond15Thomas Koenig
1 May 24 +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond3Michael S
2 May 24 +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond4Lawrence D'Oliveiro
3 May 24 +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond75Anton Ertl
5 May 24 +* Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond20John Savard
5 May 24 `- Re: Byte Addressability And Beyond1John Savard

Haut de la page

Les messages affichés proviennent d'usenet.

NewsPortal