Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 360

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Sujet : Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 360
De : SFuld (at) *nospam* alumni.cmu.edu.invalid (Stephen Fuld)
Groupes : comp.arch
Date : 25. Jun 2024, 16:30:28
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Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <v5enqj$1k5g7$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
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Scott Lurndal wrote:

"Stephen Fuld" <SFuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> writes:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
 
Presumably the downside of that was there was no such thing as
“stream- oriented” I/O: it was all record-based, just like
most of >> the other OSes.
 
For the business oriented and even scientific oriented applications
typically run on S/360, "stream oriented" I/O would have been a
distinct disadvantage.  COBOL I/O (and even Fortran I/O) is "record
oriented".  "byte oriented" I/O would ha made things harder for the
programer as well as much less efficient.
 
 
Unix was unique in hiding the need from applications/users to worry
about sector sizes when writing to files and reading from files.
But >> there was a significant overhead in that, at least in the
early years.
 
 
There still is additional overhead.  But the application amd
programming language mix has changed, so stream oriented I/O is now
the default.
 
Is there?   It's trivially easy to impose a record structure
on a stream of bytes,


Sure.  But you have taken a (typically now 4K) record structure on the
disk, treated it as a stream of bytes, then aggregating groupsof those
bytes into records.  This, while not a huge overhead, is *some*
additional overhead.




and all the unix file access APIs allow
direct access to the device without extra buffering if desired,
subject to some alignment constraints.

Yes.  Thus bypassing the overhead of the "stream of bytes" illusion. 



And even on the mainframes, the records were blocked and read
in larger chunks and the application deblocked them.

Sure.  But lets use a typical example of reading 80 column card images
blocked 10, so an 800 byte disk record (remember, this is IBM, CKD type
disks, so really 800 byte records on the disk).  So for ten out of
every eleven reads, the read verb just meant a single load of the base
address of the next record in the block.



--
 - Stephen Fuld
(e-mail address disguised to prevent spam)

Date Sujet#  Auteur
20 Jun 24 * ARM is channeling the IBM 360102John Savard
20 Jun 24 +* Re: ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36095John Levine
21 Jun 24 i`* Re: ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36094Lynn Wheeler
24 Jun 24 i `* Re: ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36093Lawrence D'Oliveiro
24 Jun 24 i  +* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36090John Levine
24 Jun 24 i  i+* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36087Lynn Wheeler
24 Jun 24 i  ii+* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36082Lawrence D'Oliveiro
25 Jun 24 i  iii`* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36081John Levine
25 Jun 24 i  iii +* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36073Lawrence D'Oliveiro
25 Jun 24 i  iii i`* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36072Stephen Fuld
25 Jun 24 i  iii i +* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36064Stephen Fuld
26 Jun 24 i  iii i i`* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36063Stephen Fuld
26 Jun 24 i  iii i i `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36062Lawrence D'Oliveiro
26 Jun 24 i  iii i i  +* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36057John Levine
26 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i`* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36056Lawrence D'Oliveiro
27 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36055John Levine
27 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i  `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36054MitchAlsup1
28 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i   `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36053Lawrence D'Oliveiro
28 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i    +- Re: TSS I/O, ancient OS history1John Levine
28 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i    `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36051MitchAlsup1
28 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i     `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36050Lawrence D'Oliveiro
29 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i      `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36049Stephen Fuld
29 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i       `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36048John Levine
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        +* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36032Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i+- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601MitchAlsup1
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i`* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36030Stephen Fuld
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i +* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36024Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i i+* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36022Lynn Wheeler
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii`* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36021John Dallman
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii +* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36019Thomas Koenig
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii i+* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3608Michael S
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii ii+* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3606Thomas Koenig
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii iii+* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3604Stephen Fuld
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii iiii`* Re: base registers, ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3603John Levine
1 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii iiii `* Re: base registers, ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3602Lawrence D'Oliveiro
1 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii iiii  `- Re: base registers, ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601John Levine
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii iii`- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601MitchAlsup1
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii ii`- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601MitchAlsup1
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii i`* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36010John Dallman
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii i +- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601MitchAlsup1
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii i `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3608Stephen Fuld
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii i  +- Re: small old machines, ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601John Levine
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii i  +* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3604John Dallman
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii i  i+* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3602Stephen Fuld
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii i  ii`- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601John Dallman
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii i  i`- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601Lynn Wheeler
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii i  `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3602MitchAlsup1
1 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii i   `- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601moi
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i ii `- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601Lynn Wheeler
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        i i`- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601Stephen Fuld
1 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i        i `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3605Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i        i  `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3604John Levine
2 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i        i   `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3603Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i        i    `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3602John Levine
2 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i        i     `- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601Dan Cross
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i        `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36015Anton Ertl
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i         `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36014Anton Ertl
30 Jun 24 i  iii i i  i          `* Re: streams and file locks, ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36013John Levine
1 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i           +* Re: streams and file locks, ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 36010MitchAlsup1
1 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i           i`* Re: streams and file locks, ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling9John Levine
1 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i           i `* Re: streams and file locks, ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling8MitchAlsup1
1 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i           i  `* Re: streams and file locks, ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling7John Levine
1 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i           i   +* Re: streams and file locks, ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
1 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i           i   i`- Re: streams and file locks, ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling1John Levine
1 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i           i   `* Re: streams and file locks, ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling4Michael S
1 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i           i    `* Re: streams and file locks, ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling3MitchAlsup1
2 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i           i     +- Re: streams and file locks, ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling1Michael S
2 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i           i     `- Re: streams and file locks, ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling1Michael S
1 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i           `* Re: streams and file locks, ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3602Lawrence D'Oliveiro
1 Jul 24 i  iii i i  i            `- Re: streams and file locks, ancient OS history1John Levine
26 Jun 24 i  iii i i  `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3604Stephen Fuld
26 Jun 24 i  iii i i   +* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3602John Levine
26 Jun 24 i  iii i i   i`- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601Stephen Fuld
27 Jun 24 i  iii i i   `- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601MitchAlsup1
26 Jun 24 i  iii i `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3607John Levine
26 Jun 24 i  iii i  `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3606John Levine
27 Jun 24 i  iii i   `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3605Thomas Koenig
27 Jun 24 i  iii i    `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3604John Levine
27 Jun 24 i  iii i     +- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601Thomas Koenig
28 Jun 24 i  iii i     +- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601Lawrence D'Oliveiro
28 Jun 24 i  iii i     `- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601Lawrence D'Oliveiro
25 Jun 24 i  iii +* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3606Terje Mathisen
25 Jun 24 i  iii i+* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3602Lawrence D'Oliveiro
25 Jun 24 i  iii ii`- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601Terje Mathisen
25 Jun 24 i  iii i`* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3603Michael S
26 Jun 24 i  iii i `* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3602Michael S
26 Jun 24 i  iii i  `- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601Terje Mathisen
25 Jun 24 i  iii `- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601Lynn Wheeler
24 Jun 24 i  ii`* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3604Terje Mathisen
24 Jun 24 i  ii +* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3602Lawrence D'Oliveiro
24 Jun 24 i  ii i`- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601Stephen Fuld
24 Jun 24 i  ii `- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601Thomas Koenig
24 Jun 24 i  i`* Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3602Thomas Koenig
24 Jun 24 i  i `- Re: ancient OS history, ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601Lawrence D'Oliveiro
24 Jun 24 i  `* Re: ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3602Stephen Fuld
24 Jun 24 i   `- Re: ARM is sort of channeling the IBM 3601Stephen Fuld
20 Jun 24 +* Re: ARM is channeling the IBM 3602moi
24 Jun 24 i`- Re: ARM is channeling the IBM 3601Lawrence D'Oliveiro
21 Jun 24 `* Re: ARM is channeling the IBM 3604MitchAlsup1
22 Jun 24  `* Re: ARM is channeling the IBM 3603John Dallman
22 Jun 24   +- Re: ARM is channeling the IBM 3601MitchAlsup1
22 Jun 24   `- Re: ARM is channeling the IBM 3601BGB

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