Sujet : Re: 80286 protected mode
De : david.brown (at) *nospam* hesbynett.no (David Brown)
Groupes : comp.archDate : 21. Oct 2024, 07:58:05
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <vf4u1t$qo5f$2@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
User-Agent : Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.0
On 20/10/2024 22:51, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 18/10/2024 20:45, David Brown wrote:
On 18/10/2024 18:38, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 16/10/2024 08:21, David Brown wrote:
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I don't see an advantage in being able to implement them in standard C. I /do/ see an advantage in being able to do so well in non- standard, implementation-specific C.
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The reason why you might want your own special memmove, or your own special malloc, is that you are doing niche and specialised software. For example, you might be making real-time software and require specific time constraints on these functions. In such cases, you are not interested in writing fully portable software - it will already contain many implementation-specific features or use compiler extensions.
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I have a vague feeling that once upon a time I wrote a malloc for an embedded system. Having only one process it had access to the entire memory range, and didn't need to talk to the OS. Entirely C is quite feasible there.
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Sure - but you are not writing portable standard C. You are relying on implementation details, or writing code that is only suitable for a particular implementation (or set of implementations). It is normal to write this kind of thing in C, but it is non-portable C. (Or at least, not fully portable C.)
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Ah, I see your point. Because some implementations will require communication with the OS there cannot be a truly portable malloc.
Yes.
I think /every/ implementation will require communication with the OS, if there is an OS - otherwise it will need support from other parts of the toolchain (such as symbols created in a linker script to define the heap area - that's the typical implementation in small embedded systems).
The nearest you could get to a portable implementation would be using a local unsigned char array as the heap, but I don't believe that would be fully correct according to the effective type rules (or the "strict aliasing" or type-based aliasing rules, if you prefer those terms). It would also not be good enough for the needs of many programs.
Of course, a fair amount of the code for malloc/free can written in fully portable C - and almost all of it can be written in a somewhat vaguely defined "widely portable C" where you can mask pointer bits to handle alignment, and other such conveniences.
But memmove? On an 80286 it will be using rep movsw, rather than a software loop, to copy the memory contents to the new location.
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_That_ does require assembler, or compiler extensions, not standard C.
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It would normally be written in C, and the compiler will generate the "rep" assembly. The bit you can't write in fully portable standard C is the comparison of the pointers so you know which direction to do the copying.
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It's a long time since I had to mistrust a compiler so much that I was pulling the assembler apart. It sounds as though they have got smarter in the meantime.
I just checked BTW, and you are correct.
Looking at the generated assembly is usually not a matter of mistrusting the compiler. One of the reasons I do so is to check that the compiler can generate efficient object code from my source code, in cases where I need maximal efficiency. I'd rather not write assembly unless I really have to!
Date | Sujet | # | | Auteur |
16 Apr 24 | Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) | 237 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
16 Apr 24 | Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) | 236 | | David Brown |
16 Apr 24 | Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) | 1 | | MitchAlsup1 |
26 May 24 | Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) | 1 | | MitchAlsup1 |
1 Oct 24 | Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) | 233 | | MitchAlsup1 |
1 Oct 24 | Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) | 232 | | Thomas Koenig |
1 Oct 24 | Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) | 225 | | MitchAlsup1 |
2 Oct 24 | Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) | 223 | | Brett |
3 Oct 24 | Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) | 222 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
3 Oct 24 | Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) | 1 | | Brett |
3 Oct 24 | Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) | 1 | | Anton Ertl |
3 Oct 24 | Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) | 219 | | David Brown |
3 Oct 24 | Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) | 218 | | Anton Ertl |
3 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) | 1 | | David Brown |
4 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) | 215 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
4 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 1 | | Lynn Wheeler |
4 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) | 211 | | David Brown |
4 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) | 210 | | Anton Ertl |
4 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 5 | | BGB |
5 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 4 | | MitchAlsup1 |
5 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 2 | | BGB |
5 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
5 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
5 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) | 13 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
5 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) | 12 | | Brett |
5 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) | 11 | | Anton Ertl |
5 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) | 10 | | Michael S |
6 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 1 | | Terje Mathisen |
6 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) | 8 | | Brett |
7 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) | 7 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
7 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) | 6 | | Brett |
7 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) | 5 | | Michael S |
7 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 2 | | Stefan Monnier |
7 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 1 | | Michael S |
7 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) | 2 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
8 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 1 | | Terje Mathisen |
6 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 191 | | David Brown |
6 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 190 | | Anton Ertl |
6 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 189 | | John Dallman |
7 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 20 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
8 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 19 | | John Dallman |
9 Oct 24 | VMS/NT memory management (was: Byte ordering) | 1 | | Stefan Monnier |
15 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 2 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
15 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 1 | | MitchAlsup1 |
15 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 15 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
15 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 3 | | Michael S |
15 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 1 | | John Dallman |
18 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
15 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 9 | | John Dallman |
16 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 7 | | George Neuner |
16 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 6 | | Terje Mathisen |
16 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 5 | | David Brown |
17 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 2 | | George Neuner |
17 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 1 | | David Brown |
17 Oct 24 | Re: clouds, not Byte ordering | 2 | | John Levine |
17 Oct 24 | Re: clouds, not Byte ordering | 1 | | David Brown |
18 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
16 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering | 2 | | Paul A. Clayton |
18 Oct 24 | Re: Microkernels & Capabilities (was Re: Byte ordering) | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
7 Oct 24 | 80286 protected mode | 168 | | Anton Ertl |
7 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 5 | | Lars Poulsen |
7 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 4 | | Terje Mathisen |
7 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 1 | | Michael S |
7 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 2 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
8 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 1 | | Terje Mathisen |
7 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 3 | | Brett |
7 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 2 | | Michael S |
7 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 1 | | Brett |
7 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
8 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 152 | | MitchAlsup1 |
8 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 4 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
8 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 3 | | MitchAlsup1 |
9 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 1 | | David Brown |
15 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
8 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 147 | | Anton Ertl |
8 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 1 | | Robert Finch |
9 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 145 | | David Brown |
9 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 79 | | MitchAlsup1 |
9 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 78 | | David Brown |
9 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 77 | | Stephen Fuld |
10 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 2 | | MitchAlsup1 |
10 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 1 | | David Brown |
10 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 1 | | David Brown |
11 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 73 | | Tim Rentsch |
15 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 72 | | Stefan Monnier |
15 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 30 | | MitchAlsup1 |
16 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 25 | | MitchAlsup1 |
16 Oct 24 | Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode | 13 | | John Levine |
16 Oct 24 | Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode | 7 | | MitchAlsup1 |
16 Oct 24 | Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode | 6 | | John Levine |
17 Oct 24 | Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode | 5 | | Thomas Koenig |
20 Oct 24 | Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode | 4 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
20 Oct 24 | Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode | 3 | | George Neuner |
22 Oct 24 | Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode | 2 | | Tim Rentsch |
22 Oct 24 | Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode | 1 | | George Neuner |
16 Oct 24 | Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode | 1 | | David Brown |
16 Oct 24 | Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode | 4 | | Paul A. Clayton |
17 Oct 24 | Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode | 1 | | David Brown |
20 Oct 24 | Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode | 2 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
20 Oct 24 | Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode | 1 | | Paul A. Clayton |
16 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 7 | | Thomas Koenig |
17 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 3 | | George Neuner |
17 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 1 | | Tim Rentsch |
16 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 3 | | David Brown |
17 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 1 | | Tim Rentsch |
16 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 41 | | David Brown |
9 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 51 | | Thomas Koenig |
13 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 14 | | Anton Ertl |
8 Oct 24 | Re: 80286 protected mode | 6 | | John Levine |
6 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) | 2 | | Michael S |
4 Oct 24 | Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not) | 1 | | John Dallman |
2 Oct 24 | Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) | 1 | | Thomas Koenig |
2 Oct 24 | Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) | 5 | | David Schultz |
3 Oct 24 | Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress) | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |