Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors

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Sujet : Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors
De : mitchalsup (at) *nospam* aol.com (MitchAlsup1)
Groupes : comp.arch
Date : 23. Apr 2024, 03:14:32
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Rocksolid Light
Message-ID : <5451dcac941e1f569397a5cc7818f68f@www.novabbs.org>
References : 1
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

Adding the typical kind of vector-processing instructions to an instruction set inevitably leads to a combinatorial explosion in the number of opcodes. This kind of thing makes a mockery of the “R” in “RISC”.
It does indeed make a mockery of the R in RISC.

Interesting to see that the RISC-V folks are staying off this path; instead, they are reviving an old idea from Seymour Cray’s original machines that bear his name: a vector pipeline. Instead of being limited to processing 4 or 8 operands at a time, the Cray machines could operate (sequentially, but rapidly) on variable-length vectors of up to 64 elements with a single setup sequence. RISC-V seems to make the limit on vector length an implementation choice, with a value of 32 being mentioned in the spec.
CRAY machines stayed "in style" as long as memory latency remained smaller
than the length of a vector (64 cycles) and fell out of favor when the cores
got fast enough that memory could no longer keep up.
I whish them well, but I expect it will not work out as they desire.....

The way it avoids having separate instructions for each combination of operand types is to have operand-type registers as part of the vector unit. This way, only a small number of instructions is required to set up all the combinations of operand/result types. You then give it a kick in the guts and off it goes.

Detailed spec here:
<https://github.com/riscv/riscv-v-spec/blob/master/v-spec.adoc>.
On the other hand, My 66000 has support for both SIMD and CRAY-like vectors
and the ISA contains only 6-bits of state supporting vectorization and exactly 2 instructions--one that gives HW a register it can use in the
"loop" and the LOOP instruction that performs the ADD-CMP-BC functionality.
{{Not 2 for every kind of vectorized instruction, 2 total instructions}}
There is nor 4KB of register file (context switch overhead),
there is no need for Gather/Scatter, stride memory references,
there is no masking register,
the OS can use vectorization for small fast loops without overhead,
the compiler does not have to solve memory address aliasing,
cache activities are modified to suit vector workloads,
exotic HW can execute across multiple lanes (as desired),
simple HW can "do it all" in a 1-wide pipeline,
the debugger presents scalar code to coder,
and exceptions remain precise (for those that care),
and the exception handler(s) sees only scalar code.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
23 Apr 24 * Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors109Lawrence D'Oliveiro
23 Apr 24 +* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors97MitchAlsup1
23 Apr 24 i+* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors21Lawrence D'Oliveiro
23 Apr 24 ii+* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors15Anton Ertl
23 Apr 24 iii+* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
23 Apr 24 iiii+- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1Anton Ertl
23 Apr 24 iiii`- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1MitchAlsup1
23 Apr 24 iii+- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1MitchAlsup1
23 Apr 24 iii`* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors10BGB
24 Apr 24 iii `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors9MitchAlsup1
24 Apr 24 iii  `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors8BGB
24 Apr 24 iii   +* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors6Lawrence D'Oliveiro
24 Apr 24 iii   i`* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors5MitchAlsup1
24 Apr 24 iii   i +* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors2BGB
24 Apr 24 iii   i i`- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
24 Apr 24 iii   i `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors2Terje Mathisen
25 Apr 24 iii   i  `- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1MitchAlsup1
24 Apr 24 iii   `- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1MitchAlsup1
23 Apr 24 ii`* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors5MitchAlsup1
23 Apr 24 ii `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors4Lawrence D'Oliveiro
24 Apr 24 ii  `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors3MitchAlsup1
24 Apr 24 ii   `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
24 Apr 24 ii    `- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1MitchAlsup1
24 Apr 24 i`* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors75John Savard
24 Apr 24 i +* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors26MitchAlsup1
24 Apr 24 i i+* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors23John Savard
24 Apr 24 i ii+* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
24 Apr 24 i iii`- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1BGB
24 Apr 24 i ii+* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors19Anton Ertl
25 Apr 24 i iii`* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors18Lawrence D'Oliveiro
25 Apr 24 i iii +* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors2Michael S
27 Apr 24 i iii i`- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
25 Apr 24 i iii `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors15John Levine
25 Apr 24 i iii  `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors14MitchAlsup1
25 Apr 24 i iii   +* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors9Michael S
25 Apr 24 i iii   i`* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors8MitchAlsup1
25 Apr 24 i iii   i `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors7Michael S
25 Apr 24 i iii   i  `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors6BGB
27 Apr 24 i iii   i   `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors5Thomas Koenig
27 Apr 24 i iii   i    +* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors3John Levine
28 Apr 24 i iii   i    i`* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
28 Apr 24 i iii   i    i `- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1John Levine
28 Apr 24 i iii   i    `- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1Tim Rentsch
26 Apr 24 i iii   `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors4Lawrence D'Oliveiro
26 Apr 24 i iii    `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors3MitchAlsup1
26 Apr 24 i iii     `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
26 Apr 24 i iii      `- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1MitchAlsup1
24 Apr 24 i ii`- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1David Schultz
27 Apr 24 i i`* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors2aph
27 Apr 24 i i `- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1MitchAlsup1
24 Apr 24 i +* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
24 Apr 24 i i`- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1Anton Ertl
24 Apr 24 i +- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1Thomas Koenig
24 Apr 24 i `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors45Anton Ertl
24 Apr 24 i  +* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors43Lawrence D'Oliveiro
24 Apr 24 i  i`* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors42Anton Ertl
25 Apr 24 i  i `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors41Lawrence D'Oliveiro
25 Apr 24 i  i  `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors40John Savard
25 Apr 24 i  i   `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors39Lawrence D'Oliveiro
25 Apr 24 i  i    +* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors3Michael S
26 Apr 24 i  i    i`* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
26 Apr 24 i  i    i `- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1Michael S
25 Apr 24 i  i    +* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors7John Levine
25 Apr 24 i  i    i`* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors6Thomas Koenig
29 Apr 24 i  i    i `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors5George Neuner
29 Apr 24 i  i    i  +* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors3Terje Mathisen
29 Apr 24 i  i    i  i+- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1BGB
30 Apr 24 i  i    i  i`- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1George Neuner
29 Apr 24 i  i    i  `- Re: lotsa power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1John Levine
25 Apr 24 i  i    `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors28John Savard
25 Apr 24 i  i     `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors27Thomas Koenig
25 Apr 24 i  i      +* Re: lots of juice, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors3John Levine
27 Apr 24 i  i      i`* Re: lots of juice, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors2Thomas Koenig
28 Apr 24 i  i      i `- Re: lots of juice, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
28 Apr 24 i  i      `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors23Tim Rentsch
30 Apr 24 i  i       `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors22Thomas Koenig
30 Apr 24 i  i        +* Re: old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors19John Levine
30 Apr 24 i  i        i`* Re: old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors18Lawrence D'Oliveiro
1 May 24 i  i        i `* Re: old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors17John Levine
1 May 24 i  i        i  +- Re: old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1MitchAlsup1
2 May 24 i  i        i  `* Re: old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors15BGB
2 May 24 i  i        i   `* Re: old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors14MitchAlsup1
3 May 24 i  i        i    +- Re: old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1BGB
3 May 24 i  i        i    `* Re: old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors12Lawrence D'Oliveiro
3 May 24 i  i        i     `* Re: old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors11BGB
4 May 24 i  i        i      `* Re: old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors10MitchAlsup1
5 May 24 i  i        i       +* Re: old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors4Thomas Koenig
5 May 24 i  i        i       i+- Re: old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1BGB
5 May 24 i  i        i       i`* Re: old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors2MitchAlsup1
5 May 24 i  i        i       i `- Re: old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1BGB
5 May 24 i  i        i       +* Re: old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors2BGB
5 May 24 i  i        i       i`- Re: old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1MitchAlsup1
6 May 24 i  i        i       `* Re: not even sort of old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors3John Levine
6 May 24 i  i        i        +- Re: not even sort of old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1MitchAlsup1
6 May 24 i  i        i        `- Re: not even sort of old power, Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1Thomas Koenig
1 May 24 i  i        `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors2Tim Rentsch
1 May 24 i  i         `- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1Thomas Koenig
24 Apr 24 i  `- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1MitchAlsup1
30 Apr 24 `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors11MitchAlsup1
30 Apr 24  +- Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors1MitchAlsup1
1 May 24  `* Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors9Lawrence D'Oliveiro

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