Re: branch address architecture, not interactive use, The Design of Design

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Sujet : Re: branch address architecture, not interactive use, The Design of Design
De : mitchalsup (at) *nospam* aol.com (MitchAlsup1)
Groupes : comp.arch
Date : 13. May 2024, 22:09:13
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Organisation : Rocksolid Light
Message-ID : <af14e2384ff1a4a23ed1837c276da87c@www.novabbs.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5
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John Levine wrote:

According to Thomas Koenig  <tkoenig@netcologne.de>:
Do we know who invented relative branches? The PDP-11 had them in 1969
but I don't think they were new then.

I am just trying to make sense of the little documentation there
is of the PDP-X, and it seems it would have had PC- relative
branches too (but also branches relative to index registers),
either with an 8-bit or a 16-bit offset.  The Nova had something
similar, but only jumps relative to PC or its index registers,
the PDP-11 went to relative-only branches.

This draft is pretty clear:

https://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp-x/29_Nov67.pdf

It had both short page 0 addressing like the PDP-8 and short relative
long and short indexed.

I'd now say relative branches were obvious once you got to the point
where the cost of the addition to the PC wasn't a big deal, so they
probably occurred to a lot of people around the same time.
This was about the time where new architectures were being designed where having an I-Cache was assumed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The PDP-11 had short relative branches and a long jump that could use
any address mode that made sense, typically absolute or indirect. The
Unix assembler had conditional jump pseudo-ops that turned into a
branch if the target was close enough or a reverse branch around a
jump otherwise. If you allow chaining branches to the same place,
coming up with an optimal set of long and short is NP complete. If you
just do long and short, you can get close enough by starting with
everything long and making passes over the code shortening the ones
you can until you can't shorten anything else. (I did that for the AIX
ROMP assembler, same deal.)
This is exactly what the Mc 88100 linker did--the compiler emitted
unresolved branches as long and the linker shortened them up when
it was found to be in range.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You could do some funky things with PDP-11 jumps like

  JMP @(R4)+

which dispatched to the next routine of threaded code pointed to by R4.
    JSR PC,@(SP)+
Popped the return address off the stack, pushed another return address on
the stack and transfers control. This is how we did coroutines.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
21 Apr 24 * The Design of Design128Thomas Koenig
21 Apr 24 +* Re: The Design of Design67John Levine
25 Apr 24 i`* Re: The Design of Design66Thomas Koenig
25 Apr 24 i `* Re: The Design of Design65Stephen Fuld
26 Apr 24 i  +* Re: The Design of Design56John Levine
26 Apr 24 i  i+* Re: The Design of Design2MitchAlsup1
26 Apr 24 i  ii`- Re: The Design of Design1John Levine
26 Apr 24 i  i+* Re: The Design of Design50Thomas Koenig
26 Apr 24 i  ii+- Re: The Design of Design1Stephen Fuld
26 Apr 24 i  ii+* Re: The Design of Design47John Levine
27 Apr 24 i  iii+* Re: The Design of Design4Thomas Koenig
27 Apr 24 i  iiii`* Re: PDP-10 addressing, was The Design of Design3John Levine
27 Apr 24 i  iiii `* Re: PDP-10 addressing, was The Design of Design2MitchAlsup1
27 Apr 24 i  iiii  `- Re: PDP-10 addressing, was The Design of Design1John Levine
30 Apr 24 i  iii`* Re: The Design of Design42MitchAlsup1
30 Apr 24 i  iii +* Re: The Design of Design40John Levine
1 May 24 i  iii i`* Re: The Design of Design39Tim Rentsch
1 May 24 i  iii i `* Re: architecture, The Design of Design38John Levine
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2 May 24 i  iii i  +* Re: architecture, The Design of Design4Thomas Koenig
3 May 24 i  iii i  i+- Re: architecture, The Design of Design1MitchAlsup1
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7 May 24 i  iii i  `* Re: architecture, The Design of Design32Tim Rentsch
7 May 24 i  iii i   +- Re: architecture, The Design of Design1Thomas Koenig
7 May 24 i  iii i   +* Re: architecture, The Design of Design28Michael S
7 May 24 i  iii i   i+* Re: architecture, The Design of Design2John Levine
8 May 24 i  iii i   ii`- Re: architecture, The Design of Design1John Levine
8 May 24 i  iii i   i+* Re: architecture, The Design of Design2Tim Rentsch
9 May 24 i  iii i   ii`- Re: architecture, The Design of Design1John Levine
8 May 24 i  iii i   i`* Re: architecture, The Design of Design23Thomas Koenig
8 May 24 i  iii i   i `* Re: architecture, The Design of Design22Michael S
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9 May 24 i  iii i   i   +* Re: backward architecture, The Design of Design2Lynn Wheeler
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30 May 24 i  iii i   i    i i  `* Re: backward architecture, The Design of Design4Tim Rentsch
30 May 24 i  iii i   i    i i   `* Re: backward architecture, The Design of Design3Stephen Fuld
30 May 24 i  iii i   i    i i    `* Re: backward architecture, The Design of Design2Tim Rentsch
31 May 24 i  iii i   i    i i     `- Re: backward architecture, The Design of Design1John Levine
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10 May 24 i  iii i   i    +- Re: backward architecture, The Design of Design1John Levine
10 May 24 i  iii i   i    `* Re: backward architecture, The Design of Design2Tim Rentsch
10 May 24 i  iii i   i     `- Re: backward architecture, The Design of Design1John Levine
7 May 24 i  iii i   `* Re: architecture, The Design of Design2Anton Ertl
8 May 24 i  iii i    `- Re: architecture, The Design of Design1Tim Rentsch
30 Apr 24 i  iii `- Re: The Design of Design1MitchAlsup1
30 Apr 24 i  ii`- Re: what's a register, The Design of Design1John Levine
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26 Apr 24 i  i  `- Re: The Design of Design1Stephen Fuld
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27 Apr 24 i  i+- Re: The Design of Design1Stephen Fuld
27 Apr 24 i  i+* Re: The Design of Design2John Levine
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28 Apr 24 i  i`* Re: The Design of Design3Tim Rentsch
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1 May 24 i  i  `- Re: antitrust history, The Design of Design1Tim Rentsch
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1 May 24   i`* Re: JCL, The Design of Design2Stephen Fuld
1 May 24   i `- Re: JCL, The Design of Design1Stephen Fuld
1 May 24   +- Re: The Design of Design1MitchAlsup1
1 May 24   +- Re: The Design of Design1Thomas Koenig
7 May 24   `* Re: The Design of Design53Tim Rentsch
7 May 24    +* Re: The Design of Design45Stephen Fuld
7 May 24    i+- Re: The Design of Design1Thomas Koenig
7 May 24    i+* Re: The Design of Design33Stephen Fuld
7 May 24    ii+* Re: The Design of Design29Thomas Koenig
7 May 24    iii`* Re: The Design of Design28Stephen Fuld
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7 May 24    iii i+* Re: interative use, The Design of Design4MitchAlsup1
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8 May 24    iii ii `* Re: third system syndrome, interactive use, The Design of Design2Lynn Wheeler
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10 May 24    iii i    +- Re: address architecture, not interactive use, The Design of Design1Stephen Fuld
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13 May 24    iii i     i `- Re: address architecture, not interactive use, The Design of Design1MitchAlsup1
11 May 24    iii i     `* Re: branch address architecture, not interactive use, The Design of Design11John Levine
12 May 24    iii i      `* Re: branch address architecture, not interactive use, The Design of Design10Thomas Koenig
13 May 24    iii i       `* Re: branch address architecture, not interactive use, The Design of Design9John Levine
13 May 24    iii i        `* Re: branch address architecture, not interactive use, The Design of Design8Thomas Koenig
13 May 24    iii i         `* Re: branch address architecture, not interactive use, The Design of Design7John Levine
13 May 24    iii i          +* Re: branch address architecture, not interactive use, The Design of Design4MitchAlsup1
14 May 24    iii i          +- Re: branch address architecture, not interactive use, The Design of Design1Thomas Koenig
25 May 24    iii i          `- Re: branch address architecture, not interactive use, The Design of Design1Anton Ertl
8 May 24    iii `* Re: The Design of Design2Thomas Koenig
10 May 24    ii`* Re: The Design of Design3Tim Rentsch
30 May 24    i`* Re: The Design of Design10Tim Rentsch
7 May 24    `* Re: The Design of Design7Thomas Koenig

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