Sujet : Re: is Vax adressing sane today
De : anton (at) *nospam* mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Groupes : comp.archDate : 07. Sep 2024, 10:44:40
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID : <2024Sep7.104440@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
References : 1 2 3 4 5
User-Agent : xrn 10.11
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:
mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) writes:
In my opinion, DEC was caught at an ugly time for them. They did not
have the transistor budget for a GBOoO implementation at exactly the
time they also needed a clean transition to 64-bits (even more trans-
istors). DEC did have the transistors for a medium OoO implementation
but unlikely the 64-bit transition.
>
For the K8 the switch from 32-bit to 64-bit was reported to have cost
5%. You were there. Are the reports wrong?
In addition, VAX is a 32-bit architecture. It was not necessary to
extend it to 64 bits and do OoO at the same time. IBM stuck with its
31-bit addresses in s390 until 2000 when it was extended to the 64-bit
z/Architecture (and the first implementation, the z900 was scalar, not
even in-order superscalar; they got superscalar in the z990 in 2003
and apparently out-of-order with the z196 in 2011; but then, IBM's
customers are probably less performance-sensitive than DEC's customers
used to be). Intel only delivered Merced (IA-64) in 2002 and
delivered Nocona (AMD64) in 2004.
Sure, there was marketing pressure to deliver 64-bit architectures
early, but I think that a competetive 32-bit OoO VAX in 1996 with an
announcement of a future 64-bit extension would have been fine
wrt. marketing. And a 0.25um 64-bit VAX in 1999 or 2000 (they shrank
the 21264 to 0.25um in 1999) would have certainly made good on that
promise.
- anton
-- 'Anyone trying for "industrial quality" ISA should avoid undefined behavior.' Mitch Alsup, <c17fcd89-f024-40e7-a594-88a85ac10d20o@googlegroups.com>
Date | Sujet | # | | Auteur |
5 Sep 24 | is Vax adressing sane today | 134 | | Brett |
5 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 122 | | John Dallman |
6 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
6 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 120 | | Anton Ertl |
6 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
6 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 5 | | MitchAlsup1 |
7 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 4 | | Anton Ertl |
7 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 3 | | Anton Ertl |
7 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | John Dallman |
7 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Anton Ertl |
7 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 111 | | John Levine |
8 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 110 | | Anton Ertl |
8 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 102 | | MitchAlsup1 |
8 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 101 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
9 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 31 | | MitchAlsup1 |
9 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 30 | | Brett |
9 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | MitchAlsup1 |
10 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Niklas Holsti |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
10 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 26 | | Anton Ertl |
10 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 4 | | Michael S |
10 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | Anton Ertl |
10 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Niklas Holsti |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Michael S |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 7 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 6 | | Michael S |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 5 | | David Brown |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Thomas Koenig |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | David Brown |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | David Schultz |
13 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | David Brown |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 5 | | John Levine |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 4 | | Thomas Koenig |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Anton Ertl |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | jseigh |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | John Levine |
20 Sep20:35 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 9 | | Kent Dickey |
21 Sep00:00 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 4 | | MitchAlsup1 |
21 Sep03:09 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
21 Sep03:52 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | MitchAlsup1 |
21 Sep10:17 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
21 Sep03:12 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 4 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
21 Sep03:51 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | MitchAlsup1 |
21 Sep09:56 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Niklas Holsti |
21 Sep10:18 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
9 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 69 | | Anton Ertl |
9 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | Michael S |
9 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Anton Ertl |
9 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Michael S |
9 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
9 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 64 | | John Levine |
10 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 63 | | Anton Ertl |
10 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 62 | | Michael S |
10 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 61 | | Anton Ertl |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 60 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 59 | | Anton Ertl |
11 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 19 | | John Levine |
11 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 7 | | Stephen Fuld |
11 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 6 | | John Levine |
11 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Stephen Fuld |
11 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Thomas Koenig |
12 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Terje Mathisen |
13 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Lynn Wheeler |
14 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
11 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | MitchAlsup1 |
12 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 8 | | Lars Poulsen |
12 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 7 | | John Levine |
12 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe | 1 | | Lars Poulsen |
12 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 5 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
13 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 4 | | Terje Mathisen |
13 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
13 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Terje Mathisen |
13 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lynn Wheeler |
12 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
13 Sep 24 | Re: what's a mainframe, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lynn Wheeler |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 35 | | Brett |
12 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 34 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
12 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 33 | | John Levine |
13 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
13 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 6 | | Terje Mathisen |
13 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 5 | | Thomas Koenig |
13 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | Michael S |
13 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Thomas Koenig |
14 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | MitchAlsup1 |
14 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
13 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Anton Ertl |
13 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 23 | | Michael S |
13 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 4 | | John Dallman |
13 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | Michael S |
13 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | John Dallman |
14 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
13 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | MitchAlsup1 |
14 Sep21:17 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Michael S |
14 Sep22:42 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | MitchAlsup1 |
13 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 14 | | John Levine |
14 Sep11:21 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 6 | | Anton Ertl |
14 Sep11:59 | In-memory database (was: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today) | 5 | | Thomas Koenig |
14 Sep12:45 | Re: In-memory database (was: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today) | 4 | | Anton Ertl |
14 Sep13:46 | Re: In-memory database (was: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today) | 3 | | Thomas Koenig |
14 Sep14:48 | Re: In-memory database (was: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today) | 2 | | Anton Ertl |
14 Sep15:41 | Re: In-memory database (was: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today) | 1 | | Anton Ertl |
14 Sep11:42 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
14 Sep22:32 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Michael S |
14 Sep22:57 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 5 | | Lynn Wheeler |
14 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
13 Sep 24 | Re: big, fast, etc, was is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lynn Wheeler |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Stephen Fuld |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | MitchAlsup1 |
8 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 7 | | Brett |
8 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 2 | | MitchAlsup1 |
6 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 2 | | MitchAlsup1 |
6 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
6 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 8 | | Anton Ertl |