Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?

Liste des GroupesRevenir à c arch 
Sujet : Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?
De : chris.m.thomasson.1 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (Chris M. Thomasson)
Groupes : comp.arch
Date : 22. Sep 2024, 01:09:54
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <vcnn8i$1p6ct$2@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 9/21/2024 4:50 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 21:06 +0100 (BST), John Dallman wrote:
 
All the threads are executing exactly the same instructions,on the same
code path.
 Yes, but look at the things that GPUs, for example, typically do: large
parts of their execution time is in pieces of code called “fragment
shaders”. In OpenGL, a “fragment” means a “pixel before compositing” --
one or more “fragments” get composited together to produce a final image
pixel. They could have just called it a “pixel in an intermediate image
buffer”, and avoided introducing yet another mysterious-sounding technical
term.
 There are a lot of memory accesses involved in a typical fragment shader:
reading from texture buffers, reading/writing other image buffers. Then
you have things like stencil buffers and depth buffers, that play their
part in the computation. And geometry buffers, though these tend to be
smaller. Buffers coming out your ears, basically. So the proportion of
instructions that access memory is much higher than a typical CPU workload
-- probably not far short of 100%, certainly in execution time.
 As I recall, DRAM access involves specifying “row” and “column” addresses.
As I further recall, if the “row” address does not change from one access
to the next, then you can specify multiple successive “column”-only
addresses and do faster sequential access to the memory (until you hit the
end of the row). GPUs would take full advantage of this, and their
patterns of memory usage should suit it quite well.
 On the other hand, such heavily sequential access has poor caching
behaviour.
 So you see the difference in memory behaviour between GPUs and CPUs: CPUs
have (or allow) more complex patterns of memory access, necessitating
elaborate memory controllers with multiple levels of caching to get the
necessary performance, while GPUs can make do with much simpler memory
interfaces that don’t benefit from caching.
 This also complicates any ability to share memory between GPUs and CPUs.
 Which brings us back to the point I made before: CPU RAM on the
motherboard is typically upgradeable, while GPU RAM comes on the same card
as the GPU, and is typically not upgradeable.
Add another GPU and cross fire it? ;^)

Date Sujet#  Auteur
13 Sep 24 * Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?411John Dallman
14 Sep 24 +- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1MitchAlsup1
14 Sep 24 +* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?10Anton Ertl
14 Sep 24 i`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?9Michael S
14 Sep 24 i +* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?6MitchAlsup1
15 Sep 24 i i`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?5Michael S
17 Sep 24 i i `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?4MitchAlsup1
17 Sep 24 i i  `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?3Michael S
17 Sep 24 i i   `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?2MitchAlsup1
17 Sep 24 i i    `- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Michael S
15 Sep 24 i `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
15 Sep 24 i  `- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Michael S
18 Sep 24 `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?399Lawrence D'Oliveiro
18 Sep 24  +* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?340MitchAlsup1
18 Sep 24  i+* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?146Lawrence D'Oliveiro
18 Sep 24  ii+* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?84MitchAlsup1
18 Sep 24  iii`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?83Lawrence D'Oliveiro
18 Sep 24  iii `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?82MitchAlsup1
18 Sep 24  iii  +- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1MitchAlsup1
18 Sep 24  iii  +* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?79Michael S
18 Sep 24  iii  i+* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?4David Brown
18 Sep 24  iii  ii`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?3MitchAlsup1
19 Sep 24  iii  ii +- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1David Brown
19 Sep 24  iii  ii `- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
19 Sep 24  iii  i`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?74Lawrence D'Oliveiro
20 Sep 24  iii  i `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?73Stefan Monnier
20 Sep 24  iii  i  `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?72Lawrence D'Oliveiro
20 Sep 24  iii  i   `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?71Chris M. Thomasson
20 Sep 24  iii  i    +* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?57MitchAlsup1
21 Sep 24  iii  i    i+* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?55Brett
21 Sep 24  iii  i    ii+* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?2Chris M. Thomasson
21 Sep 24  iii  i    iii`- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Brett
21 Sep 24  iii  i    ii`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?52MitchAlsup1
21 Sep 24  iii  i    ii +* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?9Chris M. Thomasson
21 Sep 24  iii  i    ii i+* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?2Chris M. Thomasson
21 Sep 24  iii  i    ii ii`- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1George Neuner
21 Sep 24  iii  i    ii i+* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
21 Sep 24  iii  i    ii ii`- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1George Neuner
21 Sep 24  iii  i    ii i`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?4Brett
21 Sep 24  iii  i    ii i `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?3Chris M. Thomasson
22 Sep 24  iii  i    ii i  `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?2Brett
22 Sep 24  iii  i    ii i   `- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Chris M. Thomasson
21 Sep 24  iii  i    ii `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?42Chris M. Thomasson
21 Sep 24  iii  i    ii  `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?41MitchAlsup1
21 Sep 24  iii  i    ii   +* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?4jseigh
22 Sep 24  iii  i    ii   i+- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Chris M. Thomasson
22 Sep 24  iii  i    ii   i`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?2jseigh
22 Sep 24  iii  i    ii   i `- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Chris M. Thomasson
22 Sep 24  iii  i    ii   `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?36Paul A. Clayton
22 Sep 24  iii  i    ii    +- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Chris M. Thomasson
22 Sep 24  iii  i    ii    `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?34MitchAlsup1
23 Sep 24  iii  i    ii     `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?33jseigh
23 Sep 24  iii  i    ii      `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?32MitchAlsup1
23 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       +* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?30Michael S
23 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i+* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture8John Dallman
23 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       ii+* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture2BGB-Alt
23 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       iii`- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture1Chris M. Thomasson
30 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       ii`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture5Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       ii +* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture3MitchAlsup1
30 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       ii i`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture2Michael S
30 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       ii i `- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture1MitchAlsup1
30 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       ii `- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture1Michael S
23 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?21MitchAlsup1
23 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i +* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?11Chris M. Thomasson
23 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i i`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?10MitchAlsup1
23 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i i `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?9Chris M. Thomasson
23 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i i  `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?8MitchAlsup1
23 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i i   +* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?6Chris M. Thomasson
23 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i i   i+- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Chris M. Thomasson
24 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i i   i`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?4MitchAlsup1
24 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i i   i `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?3Chris M. Thomasson
24 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i i   i  `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?2MitchAlsup1
24 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i i   i   `- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Chris M. Thomasson
23 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i i   `- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Chris M. Thomasson
24 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i +* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?6Terje Mathisen
24 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i i+- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Michael S
24 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i i+- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1George Neuner
3 Oct 24  iii  i    ii       i i`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
3 Oct 24  iii  i    ii       i i +- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Chris M. Thomasson
3 Oct 24  iii  i    ii       i i `- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1jseigh
24 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?3Michael S
24 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       i  +- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Stefan Monnier
12 Oct 24  iii  i    ii       i  `- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Anton Ertl
23 Sep 24  iii  i    ii       `- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1jseigh
21 Sep 24  iii  i    i`- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
21 Sep 24  iii  i    +* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?11Lawrence D'Oliveiro
21 Sep 24  iii  i    i`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?10Chris M. Thomasson
22 Sep 24  iii  i    i `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?9Lawrence D'Oliveiro
22 Sep 24  iii  i    i  `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?8Michael S
22 Sep 24  iii  i    i   `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?7Lawrence D'Oliveiro
22 Sep 24  iii  i    i    `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?6Michael S
24 Sep 24  iii  i    i     `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?5Lawrence D'Oliveiro
24 Sep 24  iii  i    i      +* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?3Chris M. Thomasson
25 Sep 24  iii  i    i      i`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
25 Sep 24  iii  i    i      i `- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Chris M. Thomasson
24 Sep 24  iii  i    i      `- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Michael S
23 Sep 24  iii  i    `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?2Stefan Monnier
24 Sep 24  iii  i     `- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
19 Sep 24  iii  `- Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
18 Sep 24  ii+* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?46Michael S
18 Sep 24  iii`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?45MitchAlsup1
22 Sep 24  ii`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?15Paul A. Clayton
18 Sep 24  i`* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?193Anton Ertl
18 Sep 24  +* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?55Michael S
18 Sep 24  `* Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?3Stephen Fuld

Haut de la page

Les messages affichés proviennent d'usenet.

NewsPortal