Sujet : Re: is Vax addressing sane today
De : niklas.holsti (at) *nospam* tidorum.invalid (Niklas Holsti)
Groupes : comp.archDate : 07. Oct 2024, 20:51:31
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Tidorum Ltd
Message-ID : <lmise3F45acU2@mid.individual.net>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 2024-10-07 22:12, MitchAlsup1 wrote:
On Mon, 7 Oct 2024 18:55:26 +0000, Kent Dickey wrote:
In article <efXIO.169388$1m96.45507@fx15.iad>,
EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> wrote:
Kent Dickey wrote:
In article <O2DHO.184073$kxD8.113118@fx11.iad>,
EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> wrote:
Kent Dickey wrote:
>
In no way was I ever arguing that checking for overflow was a bad idea,
or a language issue, or anything else. Just that CPUs should not bother
having trap-on-overflow instructions.
>
I understand, and I disagree with this conclusion.
I think all forms of software error detection are useful and
HW should make them simple and eliminate cost when possible.
>
I think I am not explaining the issue well.
>
I'm not arguing what you want to do with overflow. I'm trying to show
that for all uses of detecting overflow other than crashing with no
recovery, hardware trapping on overflow is a poor approach.
>
If you enable hardware traps on integer overflow, then to do anything
other than crash the program would require engineering a very complex
set of data structures, roughly approximately the complexity of adding
debug information to the executable, in order to make this work. As
far as I know, no one in the history of computers has yet undertaken
this task.
And yet, this is exactly the kind of data C++ needs in order to
use its Try-Throw-Catch exception model. The stack walker needs
to know where on the stack is the list of stuff to free on block
exit, where are the preserved registers and how many, ...
Ada too.
There are at least two ways to do that (at least for Ada, probably also for C++):
- Dynamically maintain a stack-like data structure (a chain, linked list) that describes the current nesting of "code blocks" and their exception handlers. Whenever the program enters a block with an exception handler, there is entry code that pushes the description of that exception handler on this chain, including the address of its code; and vice versa pop on exiting such a block.
- Statically construct a mapping table that is stored in the executable and maps code ranges to exception handlers.
Ada implementations started with the dynamic method, which is simpler but adds some execution cost to all blocks with exception handlers, even if an exception never happens. Current implementations tend to the static method, also called "zero-cost exceptions" because there is no extra execution cost for blocks with exception handlers /unless/ an exception does occur.
Date | Sujet | # | | Auteur |
5 Sep 24 | is Vax adressing sane today | 336 | | Brett |
5 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 324 | | John Dallman |
6 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
6 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 322 | | Anton Ertl |
6 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
6 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 5 | | MitchAlsup1 |
7 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 4 | | Anton Ertl |
7 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 3 | | Anton Ertl |
7 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | John Dallman |
7 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Anton Ertl |
7 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 313 | | John Levine |
8 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 312 | | Anton Ertl |
8 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 304 | | MitchAlsup1 |
8 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 303 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
9 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 231 | | MitchAlsup1 |
9 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 230 | | Brett |
9 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 7 | | MitchAlsup1 |
10 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 6 | | Niklas Holsti |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
25 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 4 | | Stephen Fuld |
25 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | Michael S |
25 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | MitchAlsup1 |
25 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Niklas Holsti |
10 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 222 | | Anton Ertl |
10 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 4 | | Michael S |
10 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | Anton Ertl |
10 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Niklas Holsti |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Michael S |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 7 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 6 | | Michael S |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 5 | | David Brown |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Thomas Koenig |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | David Brown |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | David Schultz |
13 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | David Brown |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 5 | | John Levine |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 4 | | Thomas Koenig |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Anton Ertl |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | jseigh |
11 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | John Levine |
20 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 205 | | Kent Dickey |
21 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 4 | | MitchAlsup1 |
21 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
21 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | MitchAlsup1 |
21 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
21 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 4 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
21 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | MitchAlsup1 |
21 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Niklas Holsti |
21 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
21 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 30 | | MitchAlsup1 |
22 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 18 | | John Levine |
22 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Michael S |
22 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 8 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
22 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 7 | | Chris M. Thomasson |
22 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 6 | | MitchAlsup1 |
22 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
22 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | MitchAlsup1 |
22 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Chris M. Thomasson |
22 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | John Dallman |
22 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | MitchAlsup1 |
22 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 5 | | Terje Mathisen |
24 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 4 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
24 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | Chris M. Thomasson |
24 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | MitchAlsup1 |
16 Oct 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Chris M. Thomasson |
22 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | Lars Poulsen |
24 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
24 Sep 24 | Re: except what, is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Michael S |
22 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 7 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
22 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 6 | | MitchAlsup1 |
22 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
22 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | MitchAlsup1 |
22 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
22 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Anton Ertl |
24 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | MitchAlsup1 |
24 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Stefan Monnier |
24 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | MitchAlsup1 |
25 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | MitchAlsup1 |
12 Oct 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Anton Ertl |
22 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 4 | | Thomas Koenig |
24 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | Kent Dickey |
24 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Bill Findlay |
24 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Thomas Koenig |
23 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Stefan Monnier |
23 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 161 | | Kent Dickey |
24 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 11 | | MitchAlsup1 |
24 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
24 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 9 | | Terje Mathisen |
24 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 4 | | Michael S |
24 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | Terje Mathisen |
24 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Michael S |
24 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | MitchAlsup1 |
24 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | Stephen Fuld |
24 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | MitchAlsup1 |
25 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Stephen Fuld |
12 Oct 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Anton Ertl |
24 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | Terje Mathisen |
29 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Michael S |
7 Oct 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | Kent Dickey |
25 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 133 | | MitchAlsup1 |
26 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 1 | | MitchAlsup1 |
28 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 131 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
28 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 3 | | George Neuner |
7 Oct 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 8 | | Kent Dickey |
12 Oct 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 2 | | Anton Ertl |
9 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax addressing sane today | 71 | | Anton Ertl |
8 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 7 | | Brett |
8 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 2 | | MitchAlsup1 |
6 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 2 | | MitchAlsup1 |
6 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 1 | | Lawrence D'Oliveiro |
6 Sep 24 | Re: is Vax adressing sane today | 8 | | Anton Ertl |