Re: What is an N-bit machine?

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Sujet : Re: What is an N-bit machine?
De : lynn (at) *nospam* garlic.com (Lynn Wheeler)
Groupes : comp.arch
Date : 30. Nov 2024, 04:42:25
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Wheeler&Wheeler
Message-ID : <871pytpeu6.fsf@localhost>
References : 1 2 3
User-Agent : Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13)
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
IBM had legendary market power, all the way up to monopoly status.
Whatever it decreed, its market had to follow.

In the wake of the Future System mid-70s implosion, the head of POK
(high-end mainframe) also convinced corporate to kill the (virtual
machine) VM370 product, shutdown the development group and transfer all
the people to POK to work on MVS/XA (i.e. a lot of XA/370 changes were
to address various bloat&kludges in MVS/370). Come 80s, with 3081 and
MVS/XA, customers weren't converting as planned, continuing to run 3081
370-mode with MVS/370. Amdahl was having more success, it had developed
microcode hypervisor/virtual machine ("multiple domain") support and
able to run both MVS/370 and MVS/XA concurrently on the same (Amdahl)
machine (note Endicott did eventually obtain VM370 product
responsibility for the mid-range 370s, but had to recreate a development
group from scratch).

Amdahl had another advantage, initially 3081 was two processor only and
3081D aggregate MIPS was less than the single processor Amdahl
machine. IBM doubles the processor cache sizes for the 2-CPU 3081K,
having about same aggregate MIPs as Amdahl single CPU .... however at
the time, IBM MVS documents had MVS two-processor (multiprocessor
overhead) support only getting 1.2-1.5 times the throughput of single
processor (aka Amdahl single processor getting full MIPS throughput
while MVS two processor 3081K loosing lots of throughput to
multiprocessor overhead).

POK had done a rudementary virtual software system for MVS/XA testing
... which eventually ships as VM/MA (migration aid) and then VM/SF
(system facility) ... however since 370/XA had been primarily focused to
compensate for MVS issues ... 3081 370/XA required a lot of microcode
tweaks when running in virtual machine mode and 3081 didn't have the
space ... so switching in and out of VM/MA or VM/SF with virtual machine
mode, had a lot of overhead "paging" microcode. It was almost a decade
later before IBM was able to respond to Amdahl's
hypervisor/multiple-domain with 3090 LPAR & PR/SM support.


--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Date Sujet#  Auteur
28 Nov 24 * What is an N-bit machine?91John Dallman
28 Nov 24 +* Re: What is an N-bit machine?67Michael S
30 Nov 24 i`* Re: What is an N-bit machine?66John Levine
30 Nov 24 i +* Re: What is an N-bit machine?11Stephen Fuld
30 Nov 24 i i`* Re: What is an N-bit machine?10John Levine
30 Nov 24 i i +* Re: What is an N-bit machine?2Michael S
1 Dec 24 i i i`- Re: What is an N-bit machine?1Paul A. Clayton
1 Dec 24 i i `* Re: What is an N-bit machine?7MitchAlsup1
1 Dec 24 i i  +* Re: What is an N-bit machine?2Thomas Koenig
1 Dec 24 i i  i`- Re: What is an N-bit machine?1Anton Ertl
2 Dec 24 i i  `* Re: What is an N-bit machine?4Terje Mathisen
3 Dec 24 i i   +* Re: What is an N-bit machine?2Brian G. Lucas
3 Dec 24 i i   i`- Re: What is an N-bit machine?1Stephen Fuld
15 Dec 24 i i   `- Re: What is an N-bit machine?1Waldek Hebisch
30 Nov 24 i `* Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)54Anton Ertl
30 Nov 24 i  +* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)22Anton Ertl
30 Nov 24 i  i`* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)21Thomas Koenig
30 Nov 24 i  i `* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)20Anton Ertl
30 Nov 24 i  i  `* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)19Michael S
30 Nov 24 i  i   `* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)18Anton Ertl
30 Nov 24 i  i    +* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)12Michael S
1 Dec 24 i  i    i`* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)11Anton Ertl
1 Dec 24 i  i    i `* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)10Thomas Koenig
1 Dec 24 i  i    i  +* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses4David Schultz
1 Dec 24 i  i    i  i`* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses3Thomas Koenig
4 Dec 24 i  i    i  i `* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses2MitchAlsup1
4 Dec 24 i  i    i  i  `- Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses1John Levine
1 Dec 24 i  i    i  `* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)5Tim Rentsch
1 Dec 24 i  i    i   +* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)3Thomas Koenig
1 Dec 24 i  i    i   i+- Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)1Michael S
1 Dec 24 i  i    i   i`- Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)1Brett
2 Dec 24 i  i    i   `- Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses1Terje Mathisen
30 Nov 24 i  i    +* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)3John Levine
1 Dec 24 i  i    i`* What is an N-bit machine?2Anton Ertl
16 Dec23:39 i  i    i `- Re: What is an N-bit machine?1Waldek Hebisch
1 Dec 24 i  i    `* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)2Thomas Koenig
1 Dec 24 i  i     `- Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)1Anton Ertl
1 Dec 24 i  +- Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?)1Anton Ertl
2 Dec 24 i  +* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses28Chris M. Thomasson
2 Dec 24 i  i`* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses27MitchAlsup1
2 Dec 24 i  i `* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses26Chris M. Thomasson
3 Dec 24 i  i  `* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses25Chris M. Thomasson
3 Dec 24 i  i   `* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses24Stefan Monnier
3 Dec 24 i  i    +* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses21John Levine
3 Dec 24 i  i    i+* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses18Stefan Monnier
4 Dec 24 i  i    ii`* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses17John Levine
4 Dec 24 i  i    ii `* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses16Stefan Monnier
4 Dec 24 i  i    ii  +* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses13MitchAlsup1
4 Dec 24 i  i    ii  i+- Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses1Thomas Koenig
4 Dec 24 i  i    ii  i+* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses3Stefan Monnier
4 Dec 24 i  i    ii  ii+- Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses1MitchAlsup1
5 Dec 24 i  i    ii  ii`- Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses1Keith Thompson
5 Dec 24 i  i    ii  i+- Re: bytes, Keeping other stuff with addresses1John Levine
22 Dec00:22 i  i    ii  i`* unaligned load/store (was: Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses)7Jonathan Thornburg
22 Dec02:27 i  i    ii  i +* Re: unaligned load/store5MitchAlsup1
22 Dec11:01 i  i    ii  i i+* Re: unaligned load/store3Thomas Koenig
22 Dec12:06 i  i    ii  i ii+- Re: unaligned load/store1Anton Ertl
22 Dec12:42 i  i    ii  i ii`- Re: unaligned load/store1John Dallman
22 Dec22:04 i  i    ii  i i`- Re: unaligned load/store1Thomas Koenig
22 Dec11:33 i  i    ii  i `- Re: unaligned load/store (was: Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses)1Anton Ertl
4 Dec 24 i  i    ii  `* Re: bits and bytes, Keeping other stuff with addresses2John Levine
4 Dec 24 i  i    ii   `- Re: bits and bytes, Keeping other stuff with addresses1Stefan Monnier
3 Dec 24 i  i    i`* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses2MitchAlsup1
4 Dec 24 i  i    i `- Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses1Chris M. Thomasson
4 Dec 24 i  i    `* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses2Chris M. Thomasson
4 Dec 24 i  i     `- Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses1Stefan Monnier
4 Dec 24 i  `* Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses2Keith Thompson
4 Dec 24 i   `- Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses1MitchAlsup1
28 Nov 24 +* Re: What is an N-bit machine?18Thomas Koenig
28 Nov 24 i+* Re: What is an N-bit machine?2MitchAlsup1
28 Nov 24 ii`- Re: What is an N-bit machine?1Brett
28 Nov 24 i`* Re: What is an N-bit machine?15Lawrence D'Oliveiro
29 Nov 24 i `* Re: What is an N-bit machine?14John Dallman
29 Nov 24 i  +* Re: What is an N-bit machine?9Lynn Wheeler
29 Nov 24 i  i+- Re: What is an N-bit machine?1John Dallman
29 Nov 24 i  i`* IBM and Amdahl history (Re: What is an N-bit machine?)7Anton Ertl
29 Nov 24 i  i +- Re: IBM and Amdahl history (Re: What is an N-bit machine?)1Lynn Wheeler
29 Nov 24 i  i +- Re: IBM and Amdahl history (Re: What is an N-bit machine?)1Lynn Wheeler
29 Nov 24 i  i `* Re: IBM and Amdahl history (Re: What is an N-bit machine?)4Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 Nov 24 i  i  `* Re: IBM and Amdahl history (Re: What is an N-bit machine?)3Anton Ertl
1 Dec 24 i  i   +- Re: IBM and Amdahl history (Re: What is an N-bit machine?)1John Dallman
1 Dec 24 i  i   `- Re: IBM and Amdahl history (Re: What is an N-bit machine?)1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
29 Nov 24 i  `* Re: What is an N-bit machine?4Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 Nov 24 i   +- Re: What is an N-bit machine?1Brett
30 Nov 24 i   +- Re: market power, What is an N-bit machine?1John Levine
30 Nov 24 i   `- Re: What is an N-bit machine?1Lynn Wheeler
28 Nov 24 +- Re: What is an N-bit machine?1MitchAlsup1
28 Nov 24 +- Re: What is an N-bit machine?1Lynn Wheeler
29 Nov 24 `* Re: What is an N-bit machine?3Anton Ertl
29 Nov 24  +- Re: What is an N-bit machine?1Thomas Koenig
22 Dec22:37  `- Re: What is an N-bit machine?1Lawrence D'Oliveiro

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