Re: the 286, Byte ordering

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Sujet : Re: the 286, Byte ordering
De : johnl (at) *nospam* taugh.com (John Levine)
Groupes : comp.arch
Date : 05. Jan 2025, 03:56:08
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Taughannock Networks
Message-ID : <vlcsc8$2drk$1@gal.iecc.com>
References : 1 2 3 4
User-Agent : trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
According to Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>:
antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) writes:
From my point of view main drawbacks of 286 is poor support for
large arrays and problem for Lisp-like system which have a lot
of small data structures and traverse then via pointers.
>
Yes.  In the first case the segments are too small, in the latter case
there are too few segments (if you have one segment per object).

Intel clearly had some strong opinions about how people would program
the 286, which turned out to bear almost no relation to the way we
actually wanted to program it.

Some of the stuff they did was just perverse, like putting flag
bits in the low part of the segment number rather than the high
bit.  If you had objects bigger than 64K, you had to shift
the segment number three bits to the left when computing
addresses.

They also apparently didn't expect people to switch segments much.
If you loaded a segment register with the value it already contained,
it still fetched all of the stuff from memory.  How many gates would
it have taken to check for the same value and bypass the loads?  If
they had done that, we could have used large model calls everywhere
since long and short calls would be about the same speed, and not
had to screw around deciding what was a long call and what was short
and writing glue codes to allow both kinds.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

Date Sujet#  Auteur
1 Oct 24 * Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress)387MitchAlsup1
1 Oct 24 `* Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress)386Thomas Koenig
1 Oct 24  +* Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress)379MitchAlsup1
2 Oct 24  i+* Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress)377Brett
3 Oct 24  ii`* Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress)376Lawrence D'Oliveiro
3 Oct 24  ii +- Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress)1Brett
3 Oct 24  ii +- Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress)1Anton Ertl
3 Oct 24  ii `* Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress)373David Brown
3 Oct 24  ii  `* Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)372Anton Ertl
3 Oct 24  ii   +- Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)1David Brown
3 Oct 24  ii   +* Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)369Lawrence D'Oliveiro
4 Oct 24  ii   i+- Re: Byte ordering1Lynn Wheeler
4 Oct 24  ii   i+* Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)365David Brown
4 Oct 24  ii   ii`* Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)364Anton Ertl
4 Oct 24  ii   ii +* Re: Byte ordering5BGB
5 Oct 24  ii   ii i`* Re: Byte ordering4MitchAlsup1
5 Oct 24  ii   ii i +* Re: Byte ordering2BGB
5 Oct 24  ii   ii i i`- Re: Byte ordering1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
5 Oct 24  ii   ii i `- Re: Byte ordering1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
5 Oct 24  ii   ii +* Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)13Lawrence D'Oliveiro
5 Oct 24  ii   ii i`* Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)12Brett
5 Oct 24  ii   ii i `* Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)11Anton Ertl
5 Oct 24  ii   ii i  `* Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)10Michael S
6 Oct 24  ii   ii i   +- Re: Byte ordering1Terje Mathisen
6 Oct 24  ii   ii i   `* Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)8Brett
7 Oct 24  ii   ii i    `* Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)7Lawrence D'Oliveiro
7 Oct 24  ii   ii i     `* Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)6Brett
7 Oct 24  ii   ii i      `* Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)5Michael S
7 Oct 24  ii   ii i       +* Re: Byte ordering2Stefan Monnier
7 Oct 24  ii   ii i       i`- Re: Byte ordering1Michael S
7 Oct 24  ii   ii i       `* Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
8 Oct 24  ii   ii i        `- Re: Byte ordering1Terje Mathisen
6 Oct 24  ii   ii `* Re: Byte ordering345David Brown
6 Oct 24  ii   ii  `* Re: Byte ordering344Anton Ertl
6 Oct 24  ii   ii   +* Re: Byte ordering189John Dallman
7 Oct 24  ii   ii   i+* Re: Byte ordering20Lawrence D'Oliveiro
8 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii`* Re: Byte ordering19John Dallman
9 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii +- VMS/NT memory management (was: Byte ordering)1Stefan Monnier
15 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii +* Re: Byte ordering2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
15 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii i`- Re: Byte ordering1MitchAlsup1
15 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii `* Re: Byte ordering15Lawrence D'Oliveiro
15 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii  +* Re: Byte ordering3Michael S
15 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii  i+- Re: Byte ordering1John Dallman
18 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii  i`- Re: Byte ordering1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
15 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii  +* Re: Byte ordering9John Dallman
16 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii  i+* Re: Byte ordering7George Neuner
16 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii  ii`* Re: Byte ordering6Terje Mathisen
16 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii  ii `* Re: Byte ordering5David Brown
17 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii  ii  +* Re: Byte ordering2George Neuner
17 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii  ii  i`- Re: Byte ordering1David Brown
17 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii  ii  `* Re: clouds, not Byte ordering2John Levine
17 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii  ii   `- Re: clouds, not Byte ordering1David Brown
18 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii  i`- Re: Byte ordering1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
16 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii  `* Re: Byte ordering2Paul A. Clayton
18 Oct 24  ii   ii   ii   `- Re: Microkernels & Capabilities (was Re: Byte ordering)1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
7 Oct 24  ii   ii   i`* 80286 protected mode168Anton Ertl
7 Oct 24  ii   ii   i +* Re: 80286 protected mode5Lars Poulsen
7 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i`* Re: 80286 protected mode4Terje Mathisen
7 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i +- Re: 80286 protected mode1Michael S
7 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i `* Re: 80286 protected mode2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
8 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  `- Re: 80286 protected mode1Terje Mathisen
7 Oct 24  ii   ii   i +* Re: 80286 protected mode3Brett
7 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i`* Re: 80286 protected mode2Michael S
7 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i `- Re: 80286 protected mode1Brett
7 Oct 24  ii   ii   i +- Re: 80286 protected mode1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
8 Oct 24  ii   ii   i +* Re: 80286 protected mode152MitchAlsup1
8 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i+* Re: 80286 protected mode4Lawrence D'Oliveiro
8 Oct 24  ii   ii   i ii`* Re: 80286 protected mode3MitchAlsup1
9 Oct 24  ii   ii   i ii +- Re: 80286 protected mode1David Brown
15 Oct 24  ii   ii   i ii `- Re: 80286 protected mode1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
8 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i`* Re: 80286 protected mode147Anton Ertl
8 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i +- Re: 80286 protected mode1Robert Finch
9 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i `* Re: 80286 protected mode145David Brown
9 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  +* Re: 80286 protected mode79MitchAlsup1
9 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i`* Re: 80286 protected mode78David Brown
9 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i `* Re: 80286 protected mode77Stephen Fuld
10 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i  +* Re: 80286 protected mode2MitchAlsup1
10 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i  i`- Re: 80286 protected mode1David Brown
10 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i  +- Re: 80286 protected mode1David Brown
11 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i  `* Re: 80286 protected mode73Tim Rentsch
15 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i   `* Re: 80286 protected mode72Stefan Monnier
15 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    +* Re: 80286 protected mode30MitchAlsup1
16 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    i+* Re: 80286 protected mode25MitchAlsup1
16 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    ii+* Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode13John Levine
16 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    iii+* Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode7MitchAlsup1
16 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    iiii`* Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode6John Levine
17 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    iiii `* Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode5Thomas Koenig
20 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    iiii  `* Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode4Lawrence D'Oliveiro
20 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    iiii   `* Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode3George Neuner
22 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    iiii    `* Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode2Tim Rentsch
22 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    iiii     `- Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode1George Neuner
16 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    iii+- Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode1David Brown
16 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    iii`* Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode4Paul A. Clayton
17 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    iii +- Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode1David Brown
20 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    iii `* Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
20 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    iii  `- Re: C and turtles, 80286 protected mode1Paul A. Clayton
16 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    ii+* Re: 80286 protected mode7Thomas Koenig
16 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    iii+* Re: 80286 protected mode2MitchAlsup1
17 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    iiii`- Re: 80286 protected mode1Tim Rentsch
17 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    iii`* Re: 80286 protected mode4Tim Rentsch
17 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    iii `* Re: fine points of dynamic memory allocation, not 80286 protected mode3John Levine
17 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    ii+* Re: 80286 protected mode3George Neuner
17 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    ii`- Re: 80286 protected mode1Tim Rentsch
16 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    i+* Re: 80286 protected mode3David Brown
17 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    i`- Re: 80286 protected mode1Tim Rentsch
16 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  i    `* Re: 80286 protected mode41David Brown
9 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  +* Re: 80286 protected mode51Thomas Koenig
13 Oct 24  ii   ii   i i  `* Re: 80286 protected mode14Anton Ertl
8 Oct 24  ii   ii   i `* Re: 80286 protected mode6John Levine
3 Jan 25  ii   ii   `* Re: Byte ordering154Waldek Hebisch
6 Oct 24  ii   i`* Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)2Michael S
3 Oct 24  ii   `- Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)1John Dallman
2 Oct 24  i`- Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress)1Thomas Koenig
2 Oct 24  +* Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress)5David Schultz
3 Oct 24  `- Re: Whether something is RISC or not (Re: PDP-8 theology, not Concertina II Progress)1Lawrence D'Oliveiro

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