Re: Cost of handling misaligned access

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Sujet : Re: Cost of handling misaligned access
De : antispam (at) *nospam* fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch)
Groupes : comp.arch
Date : 06. Feb 2025, 16:58:07
Autres entêtes
Organisation : To protect and to server
Message-ID : <vo2m6d$20glj$1@paganini.bofh.team>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6
User-Agent : tin/2.6.2-20221225 ("Pittyvaich") (Linux/6.1.0-9-amd64 (x86_64))
Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) writes:
Concerning SIMD: trouble here is increasing vector length and
consequently increasing alignment requirements.
 
That is not a necessary consequence, on the contrary: alignment
requirements based on SIMD granularity is hardware designer lazyness,
but means that SIMD cannot be used for many of the applications where
SIMD without that limitation can be used.
 
If you want to have alignment checks, then a SIMD instruction should
check for element alignment, not for SIMD alignment.
 
But the computer architecture trend is clear: General-purpose
computers do not have alignment restrictions; all that had them have
been discontinued; the last one that had them was SPARC.

Trend is clear, but there is a question: is it good trend.
You wrot about lazy hardware designers, but there is much
more lazy programmers.  There are situations when unaligned
access is needed, but significant proportion of unaligned
accesses is not needed at all.  At best such unaligned
accesses lead to small performance loss, but they may also
be latent bugs.  There are cases when unaligned accesses
are better than aligned ones, for that architecture
should have apropriate instructions.

A lot of SIMD
code is memory-bound and current way of doing misaligned
access leads to worse performance.  So really no good way
to solve this.  In principle set of buffers for 2 cache lines
each and appropriate shifters could give optimal troughput,
but probably would lead to increased latency.
 
AFAIK that's what current microarchitectures do, and in many cases
with small penalties for unaligned accesses; see
https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/unaligned-stores/

You call doubling store time 'small penalty'.  For me in
performance critical loop 10% matter and it is worth
aligning things to avoid such loss.  And what you present
does not look like what I wrote above: AFAICS what Intel
do is within single cache line and there is penalty when
crossing lines (with 2 cache lines buffers there would be
no penalty for line crossing).

For me much more important are loads.  First, there is more of
them.  Second, stores can be buffered and latency of store itself
is of little importance (latency from store to load matters).
For loads extra things in load path increase latency and that
may limit program speed.

--
                              Waldek Hebisch

Date Sujet#  Auteur
2 Feb 25 * Re: Cost of handling misaligned access112BGB
3 Feb 25 +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access2MitchAlsup1
3 Feb 25 i`- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1BGB
3 Feb 25 `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access109Anton Ertl
3 Feb 25  +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access11BGB
3 Feb 25  i`* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access10Anton Ertl
3 Feb 25  i +- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1BGB
3 Feb 25  i `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access8Thomas Koenig
4 Feb 25  i  `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access7Anton Ertl
4 Feb 25  i   +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access5Thomas Koenig
4 Feb 25  i   i`* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access4Anton Ertl
4 Feb 25  i   i +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access2Thomas Koenig
10 Feb 25  i   i i`- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Mike Stump
10 Feb 25  i   i `- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Mike Stump
4 Feb 25  i   `- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1MitchAlsup1
3 Feb 25  +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access3Thomas Koenig
3 Feb 25  i`* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access2BGB
3 Feb 25  i `- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1MitchAlsup1
4 Feb 25  +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access41Anton Ertl
5 Feb 25  i`* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access40Terje Mathisen
5 Feb 25  i +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access4Anton Ertl
5 Feb 25  i i+* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access2Terje Mathisen
6 Feb 25  i ii`- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Anton Ertl
6 Feb 25  i i`- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Anton Ertl
5 Feb 25  i `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access35Michael S
6 Feb 25  i  +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access32Anton Ertl
6 Feb 25  i  i`* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access31Michael S
6 Feb 25  i  i +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access2Anton Ertl
6 Feb 25  i  i i`- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Michael S
6 Feb 25  i  i `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access28Terje Mathisen
6 Feb 25  i  i  `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access27Terje Mathisen
6 Feb 25  i  i   `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access26Michael S
6 Feb 25  i  i    `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access25Terje Mathisen
6 Feb 25  i  i     +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access19Michael S
7 Feb 25  i  i     i`* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access18Terje Mathisen
7 Feb 25  i  i     i `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access17Michael S
7 Feb 25  i  i     i  `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access16Terje Mathisen
7 Feb 25  i  i     i   `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access15Michael S
7 Feb 25  i  i     i    +- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Terje Mathisen
7 Feb 25  i  i     i    +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access3MitchAlsup1
8 Feb 25  i  i     i    i+- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Terje Mathisen
8 Feb 25  i  i     i    i`- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Michael S
8 Feb 25  i  i     i    `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access10Anton Ertl
8 Feb 25  i  i     i     +- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Terje Mathisen
8 Feb 25  i  i     i     +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access6Michael S
8 Feb 25  i  i     i     i`* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access5Anton Ertl
8 Feb 25  i  i     i     i +- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Michael S
9 Feb 25  i  i     i     i +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access2Michael S
11 Feb 25  i  i     i     i i`- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Michael S
9 Feb 25  i  i     i     i `- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Michael S
9 Feb 25  i  i     i     +- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Michael S
10 Feb 25  i  i     i     `- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Michael S
7 Feb 25  i  i     `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access5BGB
7 Feb 25  i  i      `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access4MitchAlsup1
7 Feb 25  i  i       `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access3BGB
8 Feb 25  i  i        `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access2Anssi Saari
8 Feb 25  i  i         `- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1BGB
6 Feb 25  i  `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access2Terje Mathisen
6 Feb 25  i   `- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Michael S
6 Feb 25  +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access5Waldek Hebisch
6 Feb 25  i+* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access3Anton Ertl
6 Feb 25  ii`* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access2Waldek Hebisch
6 Feb 25  ii `- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Anton Ertl
6 Feb 25  i`- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Terje Mathisen
13 Feb 25  `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access48Marcus
13 Feb 25   +- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Thomas Koenig
14 Feb 25   +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access41BGB
14 Feb 25   i`* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access40MitchAlsup1
18 Feb 25   i `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access39BGB
18 Feb 25   i  +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access33MitchAlsup1
18 Feb 25   i  i+- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1BGB
18 Feb 25   i  i`* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access31Michael S
18 Feb 25   i  i +- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Thomas Koenig
18 Feb 25   i  i +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access26MitchAlsup1
18 Feb 25   i  i i`* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access25Terje Mathisen
18 Feb 25   i  i i `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access24MitchAlsup1
19 Feb 25   i  i i  `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access23Terje Mathisen
19 Feb 25   i  i i   `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access22MitchAlsup1
19 Feb 25   i  i i    `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access21BGB
20 Feb 25   i  i i     +- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Robert Finch
20 Feb 25   i  i i     +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access5MitchAlsup1
20 Feb 25   i  i i     i+* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access2BGB
20 Feb 25   i  i i     ii`- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1BGB
21 Feb 25   i  i i     i`* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access2Robert Finch
21 Feb 25   i  i i     i `- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1BGB
21 Feb 25   i  i i     `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access14BGB
22 Feb 25   i  i i      +- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Robert Finch
22 Feb 25   i  i i      `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access12Robert Finch
23 Feb 25   i  i i       +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access10BGB
23 Feb 25   i  i i       i`* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access9Michael S
24 Feb 25   i  i i       i +- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1BGB
24 Feb 25   i  i i       i `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access7Michael S
24 Feb 25   i  i i       i  +* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access4Robert Finch
24 Feb 25   i  i i       i  i+- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1BGB
24 Feb 25   i  i i       i  i`* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access2MitchAlsup1
25 Feb 25   i  i i       i  i `- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1BGB
25 Feb 25   i  i i       i  `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access2MitchAlsup1
25 Feb 25   i  i i       i   `- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1BGB
23 Feb 25   i  i i       `- Re: Cost of handling misaligned access1Robert Finch
18 Feb 25   i  i `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access3BGB
19 Feb 25   i  i  `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access2MitchAlsup1
18 Feb 25   i  `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access5Robert Finch
17 Feb 25   `* Re: Cost of handling misaligned access5Terje Mathisen

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