Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC

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Sujet : Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC
De : anton (at) *nospam* mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Groupes : comp.arch
Date : 03. Mar 2025, 17:44:17
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID : <2025Mar3.174417@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
User-Agent : xrn 10.11
MarkC <usenet@em-ess-see-twenty-seven.me.uk> writes:
NetBSD still has a VAX port, so the sizes of pre-built packages from
there might be informative.

Thanks.  The NetBSD pkgsrc is not limited to NetBSD, and there is a
wide variety of prebuilt stuff there.  I took those that sound like
architecture names (and probably belong to NetBSD): aarch64 alpha
amd64 earmv7hf i386 m68k mips64eb mipsel powerpc sparc sparc64 vax

Unfortunately, they do not seem to port to RISC-V in any form yet, and
their earmv7hf port uses ARM A32, not T32.  So the NetBSD competition
is performed without entries for those two instruction set encodings
that showed the smallest code sizes on Debian.  Anyway, here are the
results:

  bash      grep       xz
  710838             42236 m68k
  748354   159304    40930 vax
  829077   176836    42840 amd64
  855400   164188          aarch64
  877284   186924    48032 sparc
  882847   187203    49866 i386
  898532   179844          earmv7hf
  962128   205776    54704 powerpc
 1004864   192256    53632 sparc64
 1025136             51160 mips64eb
 1147664   232688    63456 alpha
 1172692                   mipsel

I did not find packages for everything on all architectures.  In
particular, I did not find packages for gzip on vax, so I used xz
instead.

So VAX is indeed a leading architecture in terms of code size, at
least if ARM T32 and RISC-V C is not in play.

Here are the scripts I used:

for i in aarch64 alpha amd64 earmv7hf i386 m68k mips64eb mipsel powerpc sparc sparc64 vax; do mkdir -p $i/unpacked; (cd $i; for j in bash-5.2.37.tgz grep-3.11.tgz xz-5.6.2.tgz; do wget https://cdn.netbsd.org/pub/pkgsrc/packages/NetBSD/$i/10.1/All/$j; done); done

This did not get everything, because some packages are in other
version directories or have other version "numbers", so I manually
searched for and downloaded some of the packages.  Next time I should
leave some of that to wget, see
<https://superuser.com/questions/1424700/wget-download-all-files-starting-with-a-specified-name>.

for i in aarch64 alpha amd64 earmv7hf m68k mips64eb mipsel powerpc sparc sparc64 vax; do echo $i; mkdir -p $i/unpacked; (cd $i; for j in *.tgz; do (cd unpacked; if gzip -t ../$j; then tar xfz ../$j 2>/dev/null; else tar xfJ ../$j 2>/dev/null; fi); done); done
for i in *; do (cd $i/unpacked/bin; for j in bash ggrep xz; do if test -f $j; then objdump -h $j|awk --non-decimal-data '/[.]text/ {printf("%8d ","0x"$3)}'; else echo -n "         "; fi; done); echo $i; done|sort -n

- anton
--
'Anyone trying for "industrial quality" ISA should avoid undefined behavior.'
  Mitch Alsup, <c17fcd89-f024-40e7-a594-88a85ac10d20o@googlegroups.com>

Date Sujet#  Auteur
1 Mar 25 * Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC230Lawrence D'Oliveiro
1 Mar 25 +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC220Anton Ertl
1 Mar 25 i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC25MitchAlsup1
1 Mar 25 ii+- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Thomas Koenig
2 Mar 25 ii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC23Anton Ertl
2 Mar 25 ii +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC6Robert Swindells
2 Mar 25 ii i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC4Anton Ertl
5 Mar 25 ii ii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3Robert Swindells
6 Mar 25 ii ii `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
6 Mar 25 ii ii  `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
2 Mar 25 ii i`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lynn Wheeler
2 Mar 25 ii +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC4MitchAlsup1
2 Mar 25 ii i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
3 Mar 25 ii i `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2MitchAlsup1
3 Mar 25 ii i  `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2 Mar 25 ii +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1BGB
3 Mar 25 ii `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC11Anton Ertl
3 Mar 25 ii  +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC9Thomas Koenig
3 Mar 25 ii  i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC8Anton Ertl
5 Mar 25 ii  i `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC7Thomas Koenig
6 Mar 25 ii  i  `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC6Thomas Koenig
8 Mar 25 ii  i   `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC5Anton Ertl
8 Mar 25 ii  i    +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
9 Mar 25 ii  i    `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3Torbjorn Lindgren
9 Mar 25 ii  i     `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2MitchAlsup1
9 Mar 25 ii  i      `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Thomas Koenig
4 Mar 25 ii  `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Anton Ertl
1 Mar 25 i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Anton Ertl
2 Mar 25 ii`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Keith Thompson
1 Mar 25 i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC160John Levine
1 Mar 25 ii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC159Anton Ertl
2 Mar 25 ii +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC6Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2 Mar 25 ii i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC5Anton Ertl
2 Mar 25 ii i +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
3 Mar 25 ii i i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Anton Ertl
4 Mar 25 ii i i `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2 Mar 25 ii i `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
2 Mar 25 ii +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lynn Wheeler
2 Mar 25 ii `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC151John Levine
2 Mar 25 ii  +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2 Mar 25 ii  `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC149Anton Ertl
3 Mar 25 ii   +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC6John Levine
3 Mar 25 ii   i+- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
3 Mar 25 ii   i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC4Anton Ertl
3 Mar 25 ii   i +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Michael S
3 Mar 25 ii   i i`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Anton Ertl
4 Mar 25 ii   i `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
3 Mar 25 ii   +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3Thomas Koenig
3 Mar 25 ii   i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Anton Ertl
3 Mar 25 ii   i `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1BGB
3 Mar 25 ii   `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC139MarkC
3 Mar 25 ii    `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC138Anton Ertl
3 Mar 25 ii     +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC135Thomas Koenig
4 Mar 25 ii     i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC134Lawrence D'Oliveiro
4 Mar 25 ii     i +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1BGB
4 Mar 25 ii     i `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC132Anton Ertl
5 Mar 25 ii     i  `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC131Lawrence D'Oliveiro
5 Mar 25 ii     i   `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC130Anton Ertl
6 Mar 25 ii     i    +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3John Levine
7 Mar 25 ii     i    i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Lynn Wheeler
8 Mar 25 ii     i    i `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Thomas Koenig
7 Mar 25 ii     i    `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC126Waldek Hebisch
7 Mar 25 ii     i     +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC123Lawrence D'Oliveiro
7 Mar 25 ii     i     i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC66BGB
7 Mar 25 ii     i     ii+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC61MitchAlsup1
7 Mar 25 ii     i     iii+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Robert Finch
7 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
7 Mar 25 ii     i     iii+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC55BGB
7 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii+- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
8 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC53Robert Finch
8 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC52BGB
8 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii  `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC51MitchAlsup1
9 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii   +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
10 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii   `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC49BGB
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii    +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii    i`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1BGB
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii    `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC46MitchAlsup1
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC40Robert Finch
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC7BGB
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     ii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC6MitchAlsup1
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     ii `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC5Terje Mathisen
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     ii  +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1David Schultz
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     ii  `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     ii   `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Anton Ertl
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     ii    `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC32MitchAlsup1
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC31Stephen Fuld
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC6MitchAlsup1
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC4Stephen Fuld
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  ii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  ii `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2BGB
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  ii  `- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  i`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1BGB
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC15moi
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC12Stephen Fuld
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  ii+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC10Lawrence D'Oliveiro
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  iii+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC6BGB
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  iiii+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  iiiii`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1Stephen Fuld
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  iiii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3MitchAlsup1
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  iiii `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2BGB
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  iii+- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  iii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Anton Ertl
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  ii`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1moi
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2MitchAlsup1
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC4John Levine
12 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     i  `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC3Anton Ertl
11 Mar 25 ii     i     iiii     `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC5BGB
7 Mar 25 ii     i     iii+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2MitchAlsup1
8 Mar 25 ii     i     iii`- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1BGB
7 Mar 25 ii     i     ii`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC4Robert Finch
7 Mar 25 ii     i     i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC4MitchAlsup1
7 Mar 25 ii     i     i+- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
11 Mar 25 ii     i     i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC51Waldek Hebisch
7 Mar 25 ii     i     `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Michael S
3 Mar 25 ii     `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Robert Swindells
1 Mar 25 i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC28BGB
2 Mar 25 i+* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
5 Mar 25 i`* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Stefan Monnier
1 Mar 25 +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
2 Mar 25 +* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC5Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2 Mar 25 +- Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC1MitchAlsup1
5 Mar 25 `* Re: Why VAX Was the Ultimate CISC and Not RISC2Theo

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