Re: Why I've Dropped In

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Sujet : Re: Why I've Dropped In
De : quadibloc (at) *nospam* gmail.com (quadibloc)
Groupes : comp.arch
Date : 10. Jun 2025, 23:53:27
Autres entêtes
Organisation : novaBBS
Message-ID : <8addb3f96901904511fc9350c43917ef@www.novabbs.com>
References : 1 2 3
User-Agent : Rocksolid Light
I have thought some more about why I have been going around and around
in circles.
Since the basis of the ISA is a RISC-like ISA, even if I add VLIW and
CISC functionality, I want that RISC-like ISA to be acceptable.
The basic memory-reference instructions for the ISA as I envisage it
take up 3/4 of the total opcode space for 32-bit instructions.
I've toyed with various ways to reduce this. These have included:
1) Reducing the size of displacements in instructions from 16 bits to 15
bits.
2) Using the technique from the SEL32 of using the least significant
bits of the displacement to indicate the operand length, so that all
operand types other than byte can share a single opcode (well, two; one
for integer, one for floating). This means the computer can only address
aligned data.
3) Use only four base registers instead of eight.
4) Use only three index registers instead of seven.
5) Use only six index registers instead of seven, and use only four base
registers instead of eight when indexing is used.
I have not found any of them acceptable.
Basic memory-reference instructions using up 3/4 of the opcode space,
though, isn't a problem for a basic RISC ISA. The remaining 1/4 is
enough to add additional special memory-reference instructions like
branch, jump to subroutine, and load and store multiple registers, as
well as all the 32-bit register-to-register operate instructions.
The trouble has been, though, that I *also* wanted to include in my ISA
a feature that allowed two _short_ register-to-register instructions to
be placed in a single 32-bit word. This would make for more compact
code, approaching that of CISC architectures which have 32-bit
memory-reference instructions and 16-bit register operate instructions.
3/4 plus 1/4 doesn't provide anything left over.
Since the architecture also uses a block organization, with a first
header word, I had been able to deal with this simply by starting with
one basic ISA, either compromised with paired short instructions or not
compromised without them, and also allowing a modified ISA to be used in
which the opposite choice is made, at the overhead of using the first
instruction as a block header.
Since I didn't really like that either, I kept going around and around
in circles. That approach had two problems for me: it was too
complicated, and it also imposed too high an overhead cost for doing one
of the things I wanted to include in the basic ISA without having to
switch over.
I think, though, that I've finally come up with something I haven't
tried before that puts the necessary compromises in a place I can live
with. I will still have to use block headers, but only where they're
needed:
a) to indicate space in a block not to be used for instructions, so that
instructions can have immediate data (in the form of pseudo-immediates,
as they're still pointed to by the instruction, but the pointer is a
short one, pointing within the instruction block that has been fetched
from memory, so it's efficient like a real immediate value in an
instruction);
b) to include data for VLIW functionality - instruction predication, and
explicit indication of when instructions can be executed in parallel;
c) CISC-style variable length instructions - instructions that are 48
bits, 64 bits, and so on, in length, with a bit vector indicating where
each instruction starts, so that decoding is still parallel and fast
..and _not_ for switching to an alternate 32-bit instruction set,
because the basic one is fundamentally inadequate.
So _maybe_, unless I realize before it is too late that my latest
brainstorm is also fundamentally flawed, a new iteration of Concertina
II may be coming soon.
My latest brainstorm?
Include pairs of short instructions as part of the ISA, but make the
short instructions 14 bits long instead of 15 so they get only 1/16 of
the opcode space. This way, the compromise is placed in something that's
less important. In the CISC mode, 17-bit short instructions will still
be present, after all.
John Savard

Date Sujet#  Auteur
19 May 25 * Why I've Dropped In417quadibloc
19 May 25 +* Re: Why I've Dropped In349quadibloc
21 May 25 i`* Re: Why I've Dropped In348quadibloc
22 May 25 i +* Re: Why I've Dropped In11David Chmelik
22 May 25 i i+* Re: Why I've Dropped In2MitchAlsup1
23 May 25 i ii`- Re: Why I've Dropped In1MitchAlsup1
10 Jun 25 i i`* Re: Why I've Dropped In8quadibloc
11 Jun 25 i i +- Re: Why I've Dropped In1BGB
11 Jun 25 i i `* Re: Why I've Dropped In6quadibloc
11 Jun 25 i i  +* Re: Why I've Dropped In4Chris M. Thomasson
12 Jun 25 i i  i`* Re: Why I've Dropped In3quadibloc
12 Jun 25 i i  i +- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Chris M. Thomasson
16 Jun 25 i i  i `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Chris M. Thomasson
12 Jun 25 i i  `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1quadibloc
10 Jun 25 i +* Re: Why I've Dropped In335quadibloc
11 Jun 25 i i+* Re: Why I've Dropped In322Thomas Koenig
11 Jun 25 i ii+* Re: Why I've Dropped In23BGB
11 Jun 25 i iii+* Re: Why I've Dropped In8MitchAlsup1
11 Jun 25 i iiii`* Re: Why I've Dropped In7BGB
12 Jun 25 i iiii `* Re: Why I've Dropped In6MitchAlsup1
12 Jun 25 i iiii  `* Re: Why I've Dropped In5BGB
13 Jun 25 i iiii   `* Re: Why I've Dropped In4MitchAlsup1
15 Jun 25 i iiii    `* Re: Why I've Dropped In3BGB
15 Jun 25 i iiii     `* Re: Why I've Dropped In2MitchAlsup1
15 Jun 25 i iiii      `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1BGB
11 Jun 25 i iii+* Re: Why I've Dropped In10Anton Ertl
11 Jun 25 i iiii+* Re: Why I've Dropped In6MitchAlsup1
12 Jun 25 i iiiii`* Re: Why I've Dropped In5MitchAlsup1
12 Jun 25 i iiiii `* Re: Why I've Dropped In4Anton Ertl
12 Jun 25 i iiiii  +* Re: Why I've Dropped In2MitchAlsup1
20 Jun 25 i iiiii  i`- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Anton Ertl
12 Jun 25 i iiiii  `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Thomas Koenig
11 Jun 25 i iiii`* Re: Why I've Dropped In3BGB
12 Jun 25 i iiii `* Re: Why I've Dropped In2Anton Ertl
12 Jun 25 i iiii  `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1BGB
20 Jun 25 i iii`* Re: Why I've Dropped In4quadibloc
20 Jun 25 i iii `* Re: Why I've Dropped In3MitchAlsup1
20 Jun 25 i iii  `* Re: Why I've Dropped In2moi
20 Jun 25 i iii   `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1quadibloc
11 Jun 25 i ii`* Re: Why I've Dropped In298quadibloc
11 Jun 25 i ii +* Re: Why I've Dropped In19MitchAlsup1
11 Jun 25 i ii i+* Re: Why I've Dropped In3quadibloc
11 Jun 25 i ii ii`* Re: Why I've Dropped In2MitchAlsup1
14 Jun 25 i ii ii `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1BGB
16 Jun 25 i ii i`* Re: Why I've Dropped In15Stefan Monnier
17 Jun 25 i ii i +- Re: Why I've Dropped In1quadibloc
17 Jun 25 i ii i `* Re: Why I've Dropped In13Stephen Fuld
17 Jun 25 i ii i  `* Re: Why I've Dropped In12MitchAlsup1
17 Jun 25 i ii i   +- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Stephen Fuld
17 Jun 25 i ii i   `* Re: Why I've Dropped In10Stefan Monnier
17 Jun 25 i ii i    +* Re: Why I've Dropped In6MitchAlsup1
17 Jun 25 i ii i    i`* Re: Why I've Dropped In5Stefan Monnier
18 Jun 25 i ii i    i `* Re: Why I've Dropped In4Anton Ertl
18 Jun 25 i ii i    i  +* Re: Why I've Dropped In2Stefan Monnier
19 Jun 25 i ii i    i  i`- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Anton Ertl
18 Jun 25 i ii i    i  `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1BGB
18 Jun 25 i ii i    `* Re: Why I've Dropped In3Chris M. Thomasson
18 Jun 25 i ii i     `* Re: Why I've Dropped In2Stefan Monnier
20 Jun 25 i ii i      `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Chris M. Thomasson
11 Jun 25 i ii +* Re: Why I've Dropped In198Thomas Koenig
12 Jun 25 i ii i`* Re: Why I've Dropped In197quadibloc
12 Jun 25 i ii i +* Re: Why I've Dropped In193Stephen Fuld
13 Jun 25 i ii i i+* Re: Why I've Dropped In54quadibloc
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii`* Re: Why I've Dropped In53Stephen Fuld
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii `* Re: Why I've Dropped In52Thomas Koenig
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii  +- Re: Why I've Dropped In1quadibloc
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii  `* Re: Why I've Dropped In50Stephen Fuld
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii   `* Re: Why I've Dropped In49Thomas Koenig
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii    +* Re: Why I've Dropped In21Stephen Fuld
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii    i+* Re: Why I've Dropped In19Thomas Koenig
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii+* Re: Why I've Dropped In2MitchAlsup1
15 Jun 25 i ii i ii    iii`- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Stephen Fuld
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii+- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Stephen Fuld
15 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii`* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In15John Levine
15 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii +* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In13Stephen Fuld
15 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i`* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In12John Levine
15 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i +* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In9MitchAlsup1
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i i+* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In7Stephen Fuld
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i ii+* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In2quadibloc
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i iii`- Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In1Stephen Fuld
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i ii`* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In4MitchAlsup1
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i ii `* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In3Stephen Fuld
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i ii  `* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In2quadibloc
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i ii   `- Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In1Stephen Fuld
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i i`- Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In1quadibloc
15 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i `* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In2Stephen Fuld
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i  `- Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In1John Levine
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii `- Re: big pages, base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In1John Levine
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii    i`- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Lars Poulsen
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii    +- Re: Why I've Dropped In1MitchAlsup1
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii    `* Re: Why I've Dropped In26quadibloc
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii     `* Re: Why I've Dropped In25Thomas Koenig
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii      `* Re: Why I've Dropped In24Stephen Fuld
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii       +* Re: Why I've Dropped In3Thomas Koenig
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii       i`* Re: Why I've Dropped In2Stephen Fuld
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii       i `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Thomas Koenig
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii       +* Re: Why I've Dropped In14Stephen Fuld
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii       i`* Re: Why I've Dropped In13quadibloc
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii       i +- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Stephen Fuld
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii       i `* Re: Why I've Dropped In11quadibloc
15 Jun 25 i ii i ii       i  `* Re: Why I've Dropped In10Stephen Fuld
15 Jun 25 i ii i ii       `* Re: Why I've Dropped In6quadibloc
13 Jun 25 i ii i i+* Re: Why I've Dropped In134quadibloc
14 Jun 25 i ii i i+* Re: base registers and addres size, Why I've Dropped In3John Levine
18 Jun 25 i ii i i`- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Lynn Wheeler
13 Jun 25 i ii i `* Re: Why I've Dropped In3BGB
11 Jun 25 i ii +* Re: Why I've Dropped In55Anton Ertl
11 Jun 25 i ii +* Re: Why I've Dropped In4quadibloc
11 Jun 25 i ii `* Re: Why I've Dropped In21MitchAlsup1
11 Jun 25 i i+* Re: Why I've Dropped In11quadibloc
13 Jun 25 i i`- Re: Why I've Dropped In1quadibloc
16 Jun 25 i `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1quadibloc
12 Jun 25 +* Re: Why I've Dropped In58quadibloc
27 Jun 25 `* Re: errno, Code density9John Levine

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