Re: Why I've Dropped In

Liste des GroupesRevenir à c arch 
Sujet : Re: Why I've Dropped In
De : lynn (at) *nospam* garlic.com (Lynn Wheeler)
Groupes : comp.arch
Date : 18. Jun 2025, 03:47:55
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Wheeler&Wheeler
Message-ID : <87cyb1u5no.fsf@localhost>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
User-Agent : Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13)
Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> writes:
Yes, but as I have argued before, this was a mistake, and in any event
base registers became obsolete when virtual memory became available
(though, of course, IBM kept it for backwards compatibility).

OS/360 "relocatable" ... included address constants in executable images
that had to be modified when first loaded into real storage (which
continued after move to virtual storage).

The initial decision to add virtual memory to all 370s was based on the
fact that OS/360 "MVT" storage management was so bad that (concurrently
loaded) executable sizes had to be specified four times larger than used
... so typical 1mbyte (real storage) 370/165 only ran four concurrently
executing regions, insufficient to keep 165 busy and justified. Running
MVT in a (single) 16mbyte virtual address space, aka VS2/SVS (sort of
like running MVT in a CP67 16mbyte virtual machine) allowed concurrently
running regions to be increased by a factor of four (modulo 4bit storage
protection keys required for isolating each region) with little or no
paging.

As systems got larger they needed to run more than 15 concurrent regions
(storage protect key=0 for kernel, 1-15 for regions). As a result they
move to VS2/MVS ... a separate 16mbyte virtual address space for each
region (to eliminate storage protect key 15 limit on concurrently
executing regions). However since OS/360 APIs were heavily pointer
passing, they map an 8mbyte kernel image into every virtual address
space (allowing pointer passing kernel calls to use passed pointer
directly) ... leaving 8mbyte for each region.

However kernel subsystems were also mapped into their own, separate
16mbyte virtual address space. For (pointer passing) application calls
to subsystem, a one megabyte "common segment area" ("CSA") was mapped
into every 16mbyte virtual address space for pointer passing API calls
to subsystems ... leaving 7mbytes for every application.

However, by later half of 70s & 3033 processor, since the total common
segment API data space was somewhat proportional to number of subsystems
and number of concurrently executing regions ... the one mbyte "common
SEGMENT area" was becoming 5-6mbyte "common SYSTEM area", leaving only
2-3mbytes for applications ... but frequently threatening to become
8mbyte (leaving zero bytes for applications).

This was part of desperate need to migrate from MVS to 370/XA and MVS/XA
with 31-bit addressing as well as "access registers" ... where call to
subsystem switched the caller's address space pointer to the secondary
address space and loads the called subsystem address space pointer into
the primary address space ... allowing subsystem to directly address
caller's API data in (secondary address space) private area (not needing
to be placed in a "CSA"). The subsystem then returns to the caller
... and the caller's address space pointer is switched back from
secondary to primary.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Date Sujet#  Auteur
19 May 25 * Why I've Dropped In417quadibloc
19 May 25 +* Re: Why I've Dropped In349quadibloc
21 May 25 i`* Re: Why I've Dropped In348quadibloc
22 May 25 i +* Re: Why I've Dropped In11David Chmelik
22 May 25 i i+* Re: Why I've Dropped In2MitchAlsup1
23 May 25 i ii`- Re: Why I've Dropped In1MitchAlsup1
10 Jun 25 i i`* Re: Why I've Dropped In8quadibloc
11 Jun 25 i i +- Re: Why I've Dropped In1BGB
11 Jun 25 i i `* Re: Why I've Dropped In6quadibloc
11 Jun 25 i i  +* Re: Why I've Dropped In4Chris M. Thomasson
12 Jun 25 i i  i`* Re: Why I've Dropped In3quadibloc
12 Jun 25 i i  i +- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Chris M. Thomasson
16 Jun 25 i i  i `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Chris M. Thomasson
12 Jun 25 i i  `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1quadibloc
10 Jun 25 i +* Re: Why I've Dropped In335quadibloc
11 Jun 25 i i+* Re: Why I've Dropped In322Thomas Koenig
11 Jun 25 i ii+* Re: Why I've Dropped In23BGB
11 Jun 25 i iii+* Re: Why I've Dropped In8MitchAlsup1
11 Jun 25 i iiii`* Re: Why I've Dropped In7BGB
12 Jun 25 i iiii `* Re: Why I've Dropped In6MitchAlsup1
12 Jun 25 i iiii  `* Re: Why I've Dropped In5BGB
13 Jun 25 i iiii   `* Re: Why I've Dropped In4MitchAlsup1
15 Jun 25 i iiii    `* Re: Why I've Dropped In3BGB
15 Jun 25 i iiii     `* Re: Why I've Dropped In2MitchAlsup1
15 Jun 25 i iiii      `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1BGB
11 Jun 25 i iii+* Re: Why I've Dropped In10Anton Ertl
11 Jun 25 i iiii+* Re: Why I've Dropped In6MitchAlsup1
12 Jun 25 i iiiii`* Re: Why I've Dropped In5MitchAlsup1
12 Jun 25 i iiiii `* Re: Why I've Dropped In4Anton Ertl
12 Jun 25 i iiiii  +* Re: Why I've Dropped In2MitchAlsup1
20 Jun 25 i iiiii  i`- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Anton Ertl
12 Jun 25 i iiiii  `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Thomas Koenig
11 Jun 25 i iiii`* Re: Why I've Dropped In3BGB
12 Jun 25 i iiii `* Re: Why I've Dropped In2Anton Ertl
12 Jun 25 i iiii  `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1BGB
20 Jun 25 i iii`* Re: Why I've Dropped In4quadibloc
20 Jun 25 i iii `* Re: Why I've Dropped In3MitchAlsup1
20 Jun 25 i iii  `* Re: Why I've Dropped In2moi
20 Jun 25 i iii   `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1quadibloc
11 Jun 25 i ii`* Re: Why I've Dropped In298quadibloc
11 Jun 25 i ii +* Re: Why I've Dropped In19MitchAlsup1
11 Jun 25 i ii i+* Re: Why I've Dropped In3quadibloc
11 Jun 25 i ii ii`* Re: Why I've Dropped In2MitchAlsup1
14 Jun 25 i ii ii `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1BGB
16 Jun 25 i ii i`* Re: Why I've Dropped In15Stefan Monnier
17 Jun 25 i ii i +- Re: Why I've Dropped In1quadibloc
17 Jun 25 i ii i `* Re: Why I've Dropped In13Stephen Fuld
17 Jun 25 i ii i  `* Re: Why I've Dropped In12MitchAlsup1
17 Jun 25 i ii i   +- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Stephen Fuld
17 Jun 25 i ii i   `* Re: Why I've Dropped In10Stefan Monnier
17 Jun 25 i ii i    +* Re: Why I've Dropped In6MitchAlsup1
17 Jun 25 i ii i    i`* Re: Why I've Dropped In5Stefan Monnier
18 Jun 25 i ii i    i `* Re: Why I've Dropped In4Anton Ertl
18 Jun 25 i ii i    i  +* Re: Why I've Dropped In2Stefan Monnier
19 Jun 25 i ii i    i  i`- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Anton Ertl
18 Jun 25 i ii i    i  `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1BGB
18 Jun 25 i ii i    `* Re: Why I've Dropped In3Chris M. Thomasson
18 Jun 25 i ii i     `* Re: Why I've Dropped In2Stefan Monnier
20 Jun 25 i ii i      `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Chris M. Thomasson
11 Jun 25 i ii +* Re: Why I've Dropped In198Thomas Koenig
12 Jun 25 i ii i`* Re: Why I've Dropped In197quadibloc
12 Jun 25 i ii i +* Re: Why I've Dropped In193Stephen Fuld
13 Jun 25 i ii i i+* Re: Why I've Dropped In54quadibloc
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii`* Re: Why I've Dropped In53Stephen Fuld
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii `* Re: Why I've Dropped In52Thomas Koenig
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii  +- Re: Why I've Dropped In1quadibloc
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii  `* Re: Why I've Dropped In50Stephen Fuld
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii   `* Re: Why I've Dropped In49Thomas Koenig
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii    +* Re: Why I've Dropped In21Stephen Fuld
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii    i+* Re: Why I've Dropped In19Thomas Koenig
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii+* Re: Why I've Dropped In2MitchAlsup1
15 Jun 25 i ii i ii    iii`- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Stephen Fuld
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii+- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Stephen Fuld
15 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii`* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In15John Levine
15 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii +* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In13Stephen Fuld
15 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i`* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In12John Levine
15 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i +* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In9MitchAlsup1
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i i+* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In7Stephen Fuld
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i ii+* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In2quadibloc
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i iii`- Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In1Stephen Fuld
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i ii`* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In4MitchAlsup1
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i ii `* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In3Stephen Fuld
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i ii  `* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In2quadibloc
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i ii   `- Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In1Stephen Fuld
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i i`- Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In1quadibloc
15 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i `* Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In2Stephen Fuld
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii i  `- Re: base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In1John Levine
16 Jun 25 i ii i ii    ii `- Re: big pages, base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In1John Levine
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii    i`- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Lars Poulsen
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii    +- Re: Why I've Dropped In1MitchAlsup1
13 Jun 25 i ii i ii    `* Re: Why I've Dropped In26quadibloc
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii     `* Re: Why I've Dropped In25Thomas Koenig
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii      `* Re: Why I've Dropped In24Stephen Fuld
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii       +* Re: Why I've Dropped In3Thomas Koenig
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii       i`* Re: Why I've Dropped In2Stephen Fuld
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii       i `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Thomas Koenig
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii       +* Re: Why I've Dropped In14Stephen Fuld
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii       i`* Re: Why I've Dropped In13quadibloc
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii       i +- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Stephen Fuld
14 Jun 25 i ii i ii       i `* Re: Why I've Dropped In11quadibloc
15 Jun 25 i ii i ii       i  `* Re: Why I've Dropped In10Stephen Fuld
15 Jun 25 i ii i ii       `* Re: Why I've Dropped In6quadibloc
13 Jun 25 i ii i i+* Re: Why I've Dropped In134quadibloc
14 Jun 25 i ii i i+* Re: base registers and addres size, Why I've Dropped In3John Levine
18 Jun 25 i ii i i`- Re: Why I've Dropped In1Lynn Wheeler
13 Jun 25 i ii i `* Re: Why I've Dropped In3BGB
11 Jun 25 i ii +* Re: Why I've Dropped In55Anton Ertl
11 Jun 25 i ii +* Re: Why I've Dropped In4quadibloc
11 Jun 25 i ii `* Re: Why I've Dropped In21MitchAlsup1
11 Jun 25 i i+* Re: Why I've Dropped In11quadibloc
13 Jun 25 i i`- Re: Why I've Dropped In1quadibloc
16 Jun 25 i `- Re: Why I've Dropped In1quadibloc
12 Jun 25 +* Re: Why I've Dropped In58quadibloc
27 Jun 25 `* Re: errno, Code density9John Levine

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