Re: C23 thoughts and opinions

On 02/06/2024 10:02, Michael S wrote:

On Sat, 01 Jun 2024 01:27:41 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
 

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

On 5/26/2024 6:23 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:

Am 26.05.2024 um 09:13 schrieb jak:
  

About this I only agree partially because it depends a lot on the
context in which it is used. Moreover, I would not know how to
indicate an optimal programming language for all seasons.

>
C++ is in almost any case the better C.
  

What you describe is the greatest inconvenience of c++. To make
only one example, when they decided to rewrite the FB platform to
accelerate it, they thought of migrating from php to c++ and they
had a collapse of the staff suitable for work, so they thought of
relying a compiler that translated the php into c++ and many of
the new languages were born to try to remedy hits complexity.

>
C++ is the wrong language for web applications.
I like Java more for that.

>
C++ is the wrong language for real time apps.

>
That's an incorrect statement.
>

No memory allocation allowed.

>
It is trivially easy to write C++ code that doesn't
allocate memory dynamically.
>

>
I use C++ for my server side apps on my webserver.  Works great.

>
I use C++ for operating systems (you can't get more real-time
than that)

 Engines control is FAR more real-time that OS, to list just one example
out of many.

Most engine control software runs on an RTOS - so you have at least as tough real-time requirements for the OS as for the application.  The OS stuff Scott works with, AFAIK, is real-time OS's for specific tasks such as high-end network equipment.  It is not general-purpose or desktop OS's (which I agree are not particularly real-time).

Of course, nowadays most of these things are no longer done on
general-purpose CPUs or even MCUs.
 

I think you have got that backwards.
Most engine control /is/ done with general purpose microcontrollers, or at least specific variants of them.  They will use ARM Cortex-R or Cortex-M cores rather than Cortex-A cores (i.e., the "real-time" cores or "microcontroller" cores rather than the "application" cores you see in telephones, Macs, and ARM servers), but they are standard cores. Another common choice is the PowerPC cores used in NXP's engine controllers.
It used to be the case that engine control and other critical hard real-time work was done with DSPs or FPGAs, but those days are long past.

 

and bare-metal hypervisors.

 It is hard to believe that you don't have at least one co-worker that
is begging to switch all new development to C approximately every week.
And couple of folks that beg for Rust.
 

It's possible that he has newbies amongst his co-workers, yes.