Re: A Famous Security Bug

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Sujet : Re: A Famous Security Bug
De : jameskuyper (at) *nospam* alumni.caltech.edu (James Kuyper)
Groupes : comp.lang.c
Date : 22. Mar 2024, 19:05:49
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <utkdpd$311sb$3@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 3/22/24 11:50, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
On 2024-03-21, Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
...
Link time optimization is as valid as cross-function optimization *as
long as* it doesn't change the defined behavior of the program.
 
It always does; the interaction of a translation unit with another
is an externally visible aspect of the C program.

The standard makes no use of the concept of "externally visible aspects".

"The least requirements on a conforming implementation are:
— Volatile accesses to objects are evaluated strictly according to the
rules of the abstract machine.
— At program termination, all data written into files shall be identical
to the result that execution of the program according to the abstract
semantics would have produced.
— The input and output dynamics of interactive devices shall take place
as specified in 7.23.3.
The intent of these requirements is that unbuffered or line-buffered
output appear as soon as possible, to ensure that prompting messages
appear prior to a program waiting for input.
This is the observable behavior of the program." (5.1.2.3p6).

The term "observable behavior" is italicized, an ISO convention
indicating that the sentence in which that term is italicized
constitutes the official definition of that term. Note, in particular,
that the term does NOT mean "behavior which can be observed", which
would otherwise be closely connected to your concept of "externally
visible aspects".

Note that "observable behavior" does NOT include function calls, not
even calls to functions defined in different translation units.

The standard explicitly permits optimizations which violate the abstract
semantics, so long as they result in the same observable behavior as if
the abstract semantics had been obeyed. Being able to express that
concept is the only reason that the term "observable behavior" exists.

... (That can be inferred
from the rules which forbid semantic analysis across translation
units, only linkage.)

I see no wording forbidding such analysis. The section you cite permits
separate translation, but does not forbid whole-program translation.

...
If I have some translation unit in which there is a function foo, such
that when I call foo, it then calls an external function bar, that's
observable.

Not in the sense of "observable behavior" as that term is defined by the
C standard.

...
Since ISO C says that the semantic analysis has been done (that
unit having gone through phase 7),

A footnote makes it clear that the translation phases are purely
conceptual, identifying the precedence between the different semantic
rules that they specify. An implementation is not prohibited from
intermingling the translation phases, so long as it produces the same
observable behavior as if it had not intermingled them.


...
If you have LTO turned on, you might be programming in GNU C or Clang C
or whatever, not standard C.

True, but you also could be programming in standard C.


Date Sujet#  Auteur
20 Mar 24 * A Famous Security Bug118Stefan Ram
20 Mar 24 +* Re: A Famous Security Bug108Kaz Kylheku
20 Mar 24 i+* Re: A Famous Security Bug2Keith Thompson
20 Mar 24 ii`- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Keith Thompson
21 Mar 24 i+* Re: A Famous Security Bug35David Brown
21 Mar 24 ii`* Re: A Famous Security Bug34Kaz Kylheku
21 Mar 24 ii +* Re: A Famous Security Bug4Chris M. Thomasson
21 Mar 24 ii i`* Re: A Famous Security Bug3Chris M. Thomasson
22 Mar 24 ii i `* Re: A Famous Security Bug2Chris M. Thomasson
22 Mar 24 ii i  `- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Chris M. Thomasson
21 Mar 24 ii +* Re: A Famous Security Bug28Keith Thompson
22 Mar 24 ii i+* Re: A Famous Security Bug24Kaz Kylheku
22 Mar 24 ii ii+* Re: A Famous Security Bug19Keith Thompson
22 Mar 24 ii iii`* Re: A Famous Security Bug18Kaz Kylheku
22 Mar 24 ii iii +* Re: A Famous Security Bug2James Kuyper
22 Mar 24 ii iii i`- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Kaz Kylheku
22 Mar 24 ii iii +- Re: A Famous Security Bug1David Brown
22 Mar 24 ii iii `* Re: A Famous Security Bug14Keith Thompson
22 Mar 24 ii iii  `* Re: A Famous Security Bug13Kaz Kylheku
23 Mar 24 ii iii   `* Re: A Famous Security Bug12David Brown
23 Mar 24 ii iii    `* Re: A Famous Security Bug11Kaz Kylheku
23 Mar 24 ii iii     +* Re: A Famous Security Bug2David Brown
24 Mar 24 ii iii     i`- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Kaz Kylheku
23 Mar 24 ii iii     `* Re: A Famous Security Bug8James Kuyper
24 Mar 24 ii iii      `* Re: A Famous Security Bug7Kaz Kylheku
24 Mar 24 ii iii       `* Re: A Famous Security Bug6David Brown
24 Mar 24 ii iii        `* Re: A Famous Security Bug5Kaz Kylheku
24 Mar 24 ii iii         +* Re: A Famous Security Bug3David Brown
27 Mar 24 ii iii         i`* Re: A Famous Security Bug2Kaz Kylheku
28 Mar 24 ii iii         i `- Re: A Famous Security Bug1David Brown
24 Mar 24 ii iii         `- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Chris M. Thomasson
22 Mar 24 ii ii+- Re: A Famous Security Bug1James Kuyper
22 Mar 24 ii ii`* Re: A Famous Security Bug3David Brown
22 Mar 24 ii ii `* Re: A Famous Security Bug2Kaz Kylheku
22 Mar 24 ii ii  `- Re: A Famous Security Bug1David Brown
22 Mar 24 ii i`* Re: A Famous Security Bug3James Kuyper
22 Mar 24 ii i `* Re: A Famous Security Bug2Kaz Kylheku
22 Mar 24 ii i  `- Re: A Famous Security Bug1James Kuyper
22 Mar 24 ii `- Re: A Famous Security Bug1David Brown
21 Mar 24 i`* Re: A Famous Security Bug70Anton Shepelev
21 Mar 24 i +- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Keith Thompson
21 Mar 24 i +* Re: A Famous Security Bug15Kaz Kylheku
22 Mar 24 i i+* Re: A Famous Security Bug13David Brown
22 Mar 24 i ii`* Re: A Famous Security Bug12Kaz Kylheku
22 Mar 24 i ii +- Re: A Famous Security Bug1James Kuyper
22 Mar 24 i ii `* Re: A Famous Security Bug10David Brown
23 Mar 24 i ii  `* Re: A Famous Security Bug9Richard Kettlewell
23 Mar 24 i ii   +- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Kaz Kylheku
23 Mar 24 i ii   +* Re: A Famous Security Bug2David Brown
23 Mar 24 i ii   i`- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Kaz Kylheku
24 Mar 24 i ii   `* Re: A Famous Security Bug5Tim Rentsch
24 Mar 24 i ii    `* Re: A Famous Security Bug4Malcolm McLean
17 Apr 24 i ii     `* Re: A Famous Security Bug3Tim Rentsch
18 Apr 24 i ii      +- Re: A Famous Security Bug1David Brown
18 Apr 24 i ii      `- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Keith Thompson
28 Mar 24 i i`- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Anton Shepelev
22 Mar 24 i +- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Tim Rentsch
22 Mar 24 i `* Re: A Famous Security Bug52James Kuyper
22 Mar 24 i  `* Re: A Famous Security Bug51bart
23 Mar 24 i   +* Re: A Famous Security Bug5Keith Thompson
23 Mar 24 i   i`* Re: A Famous Security Bug4Kaz Kylheku
23 Mar 24 i   i `* Re: A Famous Security Bug3David Brown
23 Mar 24 i   i  `* Re: A Famous Security Bug2bart
24 Mar 24 i   i   `- Re: A Famous Security Bug1David Brown
23 Mar 24 i   `* Re: A Famous Security Bug45James Kuyper
23 Mar 24 i    `* Re: A Famous Security Bug44bart
23 Mar 24 i     +* Re: A Famous Security Bug37David Brown
23 Mar 24 i     i`* Re: A Famous Security Bug36bart
24 Mar 24 i     i +* Re: A Famous Security Bug29David Brown
24 Mar 24 i     i i`* Re: A Famous Security Bug28bart
24 Mar 24 i     i i +* Re: A Famous Security Bug12Keith Thompson
25 Mar 24 i     i i i+- Re: A Famous Security Bug1David Brown
25 Mar 24 i     i i i+* Re: A Famous Security Bug3Michael S
25 Mar 24 i     i i ii+- Re: A Famous Security Bug1David Brown
25 Mar 24 i     i i ii`- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Keith Thompson
25 Mar 24 i     i i i`* Re: A Famous Security Bug7bart
25 Mar 24 i     i i i `* Re: A Famous Security Bug6Michael S
25 Mar 24 i     i i i  +* Re: A Famous Security Bug4bart
25 Mar 24 i     i i i  i`* Re: A Famous Security Bug3David Brown
25 Mar 24 i     i i i  i `* Re: A Famous Security Bug2Malcolm McLean
25 Mar 24 i     i i i  i  `- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Michael S
25 Mar 24 i     i i i  `- Re: A Famous Security Bug1David Brown
25 Mar 24 i     i i `* Re: A Famous Security Bug15David Brown
25 Mar 24 i     i i  `* Re: A Famous Security Bug14Michael S
25 Mar 24 i     i i   `* Re: A Famous Security Bug13David Brown
25 Mar 24 i     i i    +* Re: A Famous Security Bug3Michael S
25 Mar 24 i     i i    i+- Re: A Famous Security Bug1David Brown
25 Mar 24 i     i i    i`- Re: A Famous Security Bug1bart
25 Mar 24 i     i i    `* Re: A Famous Security Bug9bart
25 Mar 24 i     i i     +* Re: A Famous Security Bug7Michael S
25 Mar 24 i     i i     i`* Re: A Famous Security Bug6bart
25 Mar 24 i     i i     i +- Re: A Famous Security Bug1David Brown
25 Mar 24 i     i i     i `* Re: A Famous Security Bug4Michael S
25 Mar 24 i     i i     i  `* Re: A Famous Security Bug3bart
26 Mar 24 i     i i     i   `* Re: A Famous Security Bug2Michael S
26 Mar 24 i     i i     i    `- Re: A Famous Security Bug1bart
25 Mar 24 i     i i     `- Re: A Famous Security Bug1David Brown
24 Mar 24 i     i `* Re: A Famous Security Bug6Michael S
24 Mar 24 i     i  `* Re: A Famous Security Bug5bart
25 Mar 24 i     i   +* Re: A Famous Security Bug2Michael S
25 Mar 24 i     i   i`- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Michael S
25 Mar 24 i     i   +- Re: A Famous Security Bug1David Brown
28 Mar 24 i     i   `- Re: A Famous Security Bug1James Kuyper
23 Mar 24 i     +- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Tim Rentsch
24 Mar 24 i     +- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Michael S
24 Mar 24 i     +* Re: A Famous Security Bug3Michael S
28 Mar 24 i     `- Re: A Famous Security Bug1James Kuyper
20 Mar 24 +- Re: A Famous Security Bug1Joerg Mertens
20 Mar 24 +* Re: A Famous Security Bug5Chris M. Thomasson
27 Mar 24 `* Re: A Famous Security Bug3Stefan Ram

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