Re: technology discussion → does the world need a "new" C ?

On 10/07/2024 14:32, Ben Bacarisse wrote:

bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
 

On 10/07/2024 00:35, Ben Bacarisse wrote:

bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>

On 09/07/2024 18:22, Ben Bacarisse wrote:

bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>

On 09/07/2024 16:58, Ben Bacarisse wrote:

bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>

Arrays are passed by reference:
>
      void F(int a[20]) {}
>
      int main(void) {
        int x[20];
        F(x);
      }

This is the sort of thing that bad tutors say to students so that they
never learn C properly.  All parameter passing in C is by value.  All of
it.  You just have to know (a) what the syntax means and (b) what values
get passed.

>
The end result is that a parameter declared with value-array syntax is
passed using a reference rather than by value.
>
And it does so because the language says, not because the ABI requires
it. A 2-byte array is also passed by reference.

An address value is passed by value.  C has only one parameter passing
mechanism.  You can spin it as much as you like, but C's parameter
passing is simple to understand, provided learner tune out voices like
yours.

>
Little about C's type system is simple.

Parameter passing is relatively simple though since there is only one
mechanism -- pass by value.

>
Except when it comes to arrays.

 The oddity is that, in C, one can't pass arrays to functions at all.
That is one of the quirks that people learning C need to learn.  It does
not alter the fact that there is only parameter passing mechanism -- by
value.
 Your plan, of course, is to take that one place where C is relatively
simple

It is not that simple. It is confusing. It is error prone.
I earlier asked this:
"So if arrays aren't passed by value in C, and they aren't passed by reference, then how the hell ARE they passed?!"
I haven't had a reply yet. I still consider arrays in C to be 'passed' by a mechanism which is near-indistinguishable from actual pass-by-reference.
If somebody had proposed adding pass-by-reference for arrays, you'd say C doesn't need it, because whatever benefits it might have you, C already has!