Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle

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Sujet : Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle
De : rjh (at) *nospam* cpax.org.uk (Richard Heathfield)
Groupes : comp.lang.c
Date : 05. Apr 2025, 22:58:02
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Fix this later
Message-ID : <vss91c$3b1no$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 05/04/2025 21:52, olcott wrote:
*Simulating termination analyzer Principle*
It is always correct for any simulating termination
analyzer to stop simulating and reject any input that
would otherwise prevent its own termination.
*Halting Problem Principle*
Let us call the function that will
determine whether the program terminates
"terminates (f, x)," and let us further sup-
pose that it gives the answer true if the com-
putation f(x) will eventually (in theory)
terminate, and the answer false if it will
never terminate. Of course, the function
"terminates" itself should be designed
always to terminate; otherwise its general
usefulness would be seriously impaired.
CAR Hoare AND DCS Allison, "Incomputability", 1972.
So a "termination analyzer" (as you call it) is /required/ to terminate (with the correct answer).
Because it must terminate, it cannot be allowed to depend on running programs to completion to see if they terminate, lest they don't. They must be cleverer than that.
Fortunately we don't need to be too clever just to reason about terminates(). We can use pseudo-code to show how to call it and wave our way past its guts.
We will assume that terminates() correctly echoes either "Does halt" or "Never halts" to the output device, ))))however((((( it arrives at the result, because whether it determines the answer by simulation or by parsing the source is /irrelevant/ as long as it gets the answer right.
hp(arg candidate, arg testdata)
{
   if(terminates(candidate(testdata)))
   {
     while(forever);
   }
   else
   {
     halt;
   }
}
We then invoke the program:
hp(hp, hp)
and try to predict what terminates() will report, and of course the answer is that we don't know, because neither does terminates(). The function cannot be written.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Date Sujet#  Auteur
5 Apr 25 * Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle66olcott
5 Apr 25 +* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle27dbush
5 Apr 25 i`* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle26olcott
5 Apr 25 i +* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle24dbush
5 Apr 25 i i`* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle23Richard Heathfield
5 Apr 25 i i +* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle11dbush
6 Apr 25 i i i`* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle10olcott
6 Apr 25 i i i +* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle5dbush
6 Apr 25 i i i i`* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle4olcott
6 Apr 25 i i i i +* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle2Richard Heathfield
6 Apr 25 i i i i i`- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1olcott
6 Apr 25 i i i i `- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1dbush
6 Apr 25 i i i `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle4Richard Heathfield
6 Apr 25 i i i  `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle3olcott
6 Apr 25 i i i   `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle2Richard Heathfield
6 Apr 25 i i i    `- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1olcott
6 Apr 25 i i `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle11olcott
6 Apr 25 i i  +* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle6dbush
6 Apr 25 i i  i`* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle5olcott
6 Apr 25 i i  i +* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle2Richard Heathfield
6 Apr 25 i i  i i`- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1olcott
6 Apr 25 i i  i `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle2dbush
6 Apr 25 i i  i  `- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1olcott
6 Apr 25 i i  +- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1Richard Heathfield
6 Apr 25 i i  `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle3James Kuyper
6 Apr 25 i i   `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle2olcott
6 Apr 25 i i    `- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1Richard Heathfield
5 Apr 25 i `- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1Chris M. Thomasson
5 Apr 25 `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle38Richard Heathfield
5 Apr 25  `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle37olcott
5 Apr 25   `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle36Richard Heathfield
5 Apr 25    +* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle15Kaz Kylheku
6 Apr 25    i+* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle13Richard Heathfield
6 Apr 25    ii`* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle12Tim Rentsch
6 Apr 25    ii +- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1Richard Heathfield
6 Apr 25    ii `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle10olcott
7 Apr 25    ii  `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle9Tim Rentsch
7 Apr 25    ii   `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle8olcott
7 Apr 25    ii    `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle7Tim Rentsch
7 Apr 25    ii     +* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle4Keith Thompson
7 Apr 25    ii     i+- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1olcott
8 Apr 25    ii     i`* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle2Tim Rentsch
9 Apr 25    ii     i `- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1olcott
7 Apr 25    ii     +- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1olcott
9 Apr 25    ii     `- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1olcott
6 Apr 25    i`- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1olcott
6 Apr 25    `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle20olcott
6 Apr 25     `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle19Richard Heathfield
6 Apr 25      `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle18olcott
9 Apr 25       `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle17Chris M. Thomasson
9 Apr 25        `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle16olcott
10 Apr 25         `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle15Chris M. Thomasson
10 Apr 25          `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle14olcott
10 Apr 25           `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle13Chris M. Thomasson
10 Apr 25            +- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1Chris M. Thomasson
10 Apr 25            `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle11olcott
11 Apr 25             `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle10Chris M. Thomasson
11 Apr 25              `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle9olcott
11 Apr 25               `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle8Chris M. Thomasson
11 Apr 25                +* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle2Richard Heathfield
13 Apr13:08                i`- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1olcott
13 Apr13:03                `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle5olcott
13 Apr20:38                 `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle4Chris M. Thomasson
13 Apr20:56                  `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle3olcott
13 Apr22:50                   `* Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle2Chris M. Thomasson
14 Apr00:26                    `- Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle1olcott

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