Re: this girl calls c ugly

Liste des GroupesRevenir à cl c  
Sujet : Re: this girl calls c ugly
De : ldo (at) *nospam* nz.invalid (Lawrence D’Oliveiro)
Groupes : comp.lang.c
Date : 29. May 2026, 00:54:52
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <10vakkb$3phl1$9@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5
User-Agent : Pan/0.165 (Kostiantynivka)
On Thu, 28 May 2026 14:07:45 -0500, BGB wrote:

Some like LISP syntax, others can't stand the excessive parenthesis.

Worth mentioning that the whole point about Lisp syntax is to get as
close to no syntax as possible -- essentially, all the “syntax” is
down to the meaning of the first word after each opening parenthesis
(function call, macro call or “special form”). This is to achieve
homoiconicity, which is a core feature of the language.

Anybody remember PostScript? That, too, was homoiconic. And achieved
it in a similar way, with an absolutely minimalist compile-time
syntax.

Other, newer languages have found a way to implement AST-level macros
without going to that sort of extreme -- Julia and Rust, I think, can
manage it. I even did it in Python, with a little bit of fudging.

There have been attempts to eliminate parenthesis ...

The problem for me is the “parenthesis pileup” layout that seems to be
traditional among Lisp programmers. I prefer to put parentheses that
have the interpretation of delimiting statement blocks on lines by
themselves (and sometimes other constructs as well, if they get too
long), e.g.

    (defun set_auto_indent (&optional on)
        "lets user change auto-indent setting."
        (interactive)
        (when (eq on nil)
            (setq on
                (y-or-n-p
                    (format
                        "Auto-indent [%s]? "
                        (if
                            (eq
                                (lookup-key (current-global-map) "\015")
                                'auto_indent
                            )
                            "y"
                            "n"
                        ) ; if
                    )
                )
            ) ; setq
        ) ; when
        (cond
            (on
                (global-set-key "\015" 'auto_indent)
                (global-set-key [?\C-\M-m] 'newline)
                (message "Auto-indent on")
            )
            (t
                (global-set-key "\015" 'newline)
                (global-set-key [?\C-\M-m] 'auto_indent)
                (message "Auto-indent off")
            )
        ) ; cond
    ) ; set_auto_indent

Infix notation and precedence rules are pros/cons.

Python took over most of the C operator precedence rules, with one
interesting wrinkle: they moved up the precedence of the bitwise
operators so that what has to be written like this in C:

    («val» & «mask») == «expected»

can have the parentheses omitted in Python:

    «val» & «mask» == «expected»

Smalltalk was once popular, and while arguably some aspects of its
syntax are "aesthetic", I personally found trying to read anything
in the language to be almost incomprehensible (so, negative points
if I can't make any sense of what is going on).

I did have a look at it at one point. Not too hard to manage. The
hardest part was trying to find some actual explicit definition of the
whole syntax.

All in all, though, I think its approach to object-orientation is a
bit ancient, compared to, say, Python.

Early on, I had liked JS and ActionScript, as (compared with LISP
and Scheme) they scaled a lot easier to "real programming work".
>
But, then one faces a tension:
Light duty scripting: Favors keeping the language dynamic and
minimizing structural concerns;
Implementation work: Favors strongly going in a direction more like
the C-like languages.

Lua sounds like it was designed for what you had in mind.

But these days, it’s just easier to use Python.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
27 May 26 * this girl calls c ugly363fir
27 May 26 `* Re: this girl calls c ugly362fir
28 May 26  `* Re: this girl calls c ugly361BGB
28 May 26   +* Re: this girl calls c ugly5Lawrence D’Oliveiro
28 May 26   i+* Re: this girl calls c ugly3BGB
29 May 26   ii`* Re: this girl calls c ugly2Lawrence D’Oliveiro
29 May 26   ii `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1BGB
28 May 26   i`- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Bonita Montero
28 May 26   +* Re: this girl calls c ugly19Janis Papanagnou
28 May 26   i+* Re: this girl calls c ugly15BGB
29 May 26   ii+- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Lawrence D’Oliveiro
29 May 26   ii`* Re: this girl calls c ugly13Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26   ii `* Re: this girl calls c ugly12BGB
29 May 26   ii  +* Re: this girl calls c ugly9David Brown
29 May 26   ii  i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly8BGB
30 May 26   ii  i `* Re: this girl calls c ugly7David Brown
30 May 26   ii  i  +* Re: this girl calls c ugly2Janis Papanagnou
30 May 26   ii  i  i`- Re: this girl calls c ugly1David Brown
30 May 26   ii  i  `* Re: this girl calls c ugly4BGB
31 May 26   ii  i   `* Re: this girl calls c ugly3David Brown
31 May 26   ii  i    `* Re: this girl calls c ugly2BGB
31 May 26   ii  i     `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1David Brown
29 May 26   ii  +- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Janis Papanagnou
30 May 26   ii  `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Lawrence D’Oliveiro
28 May 26   i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly3Chris M. Thomasson
29 May 26   i `* Re: this girl calls c ugly2Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26   i  `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Chris M. Thomasson
28 May 26   `* Re: this girl calls c ugly336fir
28 May 26    `* Re: this girl calls c ugly335BGB
29 May 26     +* Re: this girl calls c ugly328Lawrence D’Oliveiro
29 May 26     i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly327Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26     i `* Re: this girl calls c ugly326Bart
29 May 26     i  +* Re: this girl calls c ugly310Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26     i  i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly309Bart
29 May 26     i  i +* Re: this girl calls c ugly9Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26     i  i i+* Re: this girl calls c ugly2Bart
29 May 26     i  i ii`- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26     i  i i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly6Bart
29 May 26     i  i i +* Re: this girl calls c ugly4Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26     i  i i i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly3Bart
29 May 26     i  i i i `* Re: this girl calls c ugly2Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26     i  i i i  `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Bart
29 May 26     i  i i `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Keith Thompson
29 May 26     i  i `* Re: this girl calls c ugly299tTh
29 May 26     i  i  `* Re: this girl calls c ugly298Bart
29 May 26     i  i   +* Re: this girl calls c ugly296Keith Thompson
29 May 26     i  i   i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly295Bart
29 May 26     i  i   i +- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26     i  i   i `* Re: this girl calls c ugly293Keith Thompson
29 May 26     i  i   i  `* Re: this girl calls c ugly292Bart
29 May 26     i  i   i   +* Re: this girl calls c ugly5Keith Thompson
30 May 26     i  i   i   i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly4James Kuyper
30 May 26     i  i   i   i `* Re: this girl calls c ugly3Bart
30 May 26     i  i   i   i  `* Re: this girl calls c ugly2Keith Thompson
30 May 26     i  i   i   i   `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Bart
30 May 26     i  i   i   `* Re: this girl calls c ugly286Dan Cross
30 May 26     i  i   i    +* Re: this girl calls c ugly282Bart
31 May 26     i  i   i    i+* Re: this girl calls c ugly280Keith Thompson
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii+* Re: this girl calls c ugly5Janis Papanagnou
31 May 26     i  i   i    iii+* Re: this girl calls c ugly2Keith Thompson
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    iiii`- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Janis Papanagnou
31 May 26     i  i   i    iii`* Re: this girl calls c ugly2David Brown
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    iii `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Janis Papanagnou
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii`* Re: this girl calls c ugly274Richard Harnden
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii +* Re: this girl calls c ugly169David Brown
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii i+* Re: this girl calls c ugly166Bart
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii ii+* Re: this girl calls c ugly140David Brown
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii iii`* Re: this girl calls c ugly139James Kuyper
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii iii `* Re: this girl calls c ugly138David Brown
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii iii  +* Re: this girl calls c ugly4James Kuyper
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii iii  i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly3David Brown
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii iii  i `* Re: this girl calls c ugly2James Kuyper
1 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii  i  `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1David Brown
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii iii  `* Re: this girl calls c ugly133Keith Thompson
1 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   +* Re: this girl calls c ugly2David Brown
1 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   i`- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Keith Thompson
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   +* Re: this girl calls c ugly129Janis Papanagnou
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   i+- Re: this girl calls c ugly1James Kuyper
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   i+* Constants and undefined behavior82Tim Rentsch
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii`* Re: Constants and undefined behavior81Dan Cross
4 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior80Tim Rentsch
4 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii  `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior79Dan Cross
4 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   +* Re: Constants and undefined behavior31Keith Thompson
5 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   i+* Re: Constants and undefined behavior28Dan Cross
5 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   ii+* Re: Constants and undefined behavior24Keith Thompson
6 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iii+* Re: Constants and undefined behavior19Dan Cross
6 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii`* Re: Constants and undefined behavior18Keith Thompson
8 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior17Dan Cross
8 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii  +* Re: Constants and undefined behavior5Keith Thompson
9 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii  i`* Re: Constants and undefined behavior4Dan Cross
9 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii  i `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior3Keith Thompson
9 Jun10:46     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii  i  `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior2Dan Cross
9 Jun23:07     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii  i   `- Re: Constants and undefined behavior1Keith Thompson
9 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii  `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior11Waldek Hebisch
9 Jun23:29     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii   +* Re: Constants and undefined behavior3James Kuyper
10 Jun00:01     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii   i`* Re: Constants and undefined behavior2Keith Thompson
10 Jun13:36     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii   i `- Re: Constants and undefined behavior1Dan Cross
11 Jun15:49     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii   `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior7Janis Papanagnou
11 Jun16:20     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii    +* Re: Constants and undefined behavior2Dan Cross
11 Jun17:08     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii    i`- Re: Constants and undefined behavior1Janis Papanagnou
11 Jun17:30     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii    `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior4Waldek Hebisch
6 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iii`* Re: Constants and undefined behavior4Tim Rentsch
5 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   ii`* Re: Constants and undefined behavior3Janis Papanagnou
7 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   i`* Re: Constants and undefined behavior2Tim Rentsch
9 Jun07:05     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior47Tim Rentsch
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly45Keith Thompson
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Chris M. Thomasson
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii ii`* Re: this girl calls c ugly25Dan Cross
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly2James Kuyper
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii +* Re: this girl calls c ugly2Keith Thompson
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii `* Re: this girl calls c ugly102Tim Rentsch
31 May 26     i  i   i    i`- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Dan Cross
1 Jun 26     i  i   i    `* Re: this girl calls c ugly3Tim Rentsch
30 May 26     i  i   `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1David Brown
29 May 26     i  +* Re: this girl calls c ugly6Janis Papanagnou
30 May 26     i  `* Re: this girl calls c ugly9Lawrence D’Oliveiro
29 May 26     `* Re: this girl calls c ugly6Bonita Montero

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