Re: Constants and undefined behavior

Liste des GroupesRevenir à cl c  
Sujet : Re: Constants and undefined behavior
De : ram (at) *nospam* zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
Groupes : comp.lang.c
Date : 14. Jun 2026, 18:22:22
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Stefan Ram
Message-ID : <UB-20260614180434@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
References : 1 2 3 4 5
cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) wrote or quoted:
I'm not a huge fan of Carruth.

  (Text after "| " below was generated by a chatbot asked to explain
  narrow contracts and the reduction of efficiency by defining UB.)

  (Let me guess: You are not a huge fan of chatbots either!
  Ok, that was easy.)

  Chandler talked about how narrow contracts allow optimizations.

| - Wide Contract: The function guarantees to handle all possible inputs
|   gracefully, usually by returning an error code or throwing an
|   exception. (e.g., "If the pointer is null, return ERR_NULL_PTR").
|
| - Narrow Contract: The function only guarantees correct behavior if
|   the caller meets specific preconditions. If the preconditions are
|   violated, the behavior is undefined.
|
| When is it appropriate to have a narrow contract? Always, when
| performance, memory footprint, or direct hardware control are
| paramount. In operating system kernels, embedded systems, real-time
| applications, and high-performance computing, the overhead of
| validating every pointer, checking every array bound, and verifying
| every integer range is unacceptable. C assumes the programmer is
| competent and knows the state of their own data. Narrow contracts
| shift the burden of correctness from runtime execution to compile-time
| reasoning and programmer discipline.

  Chandler also explained how defining UB for certain operations
  would require less efficient code to be generated.
 
| The hardware:  Some architectures silently wrap on overflow, some trap
| and halt the CPU, and some have no concept of the operation at all.
| Forcing a single, defined behavior (like "always wrap around") would
| require compilers to insert expensive emulation code on architectures
| that don't support it natively, destroying C's "trust the hardware"
| philosophy.
|
| Or, consider a loop:
|
|     for (int i = 0; i < n; i++) {
|         arr[i] = 0;
|     }
|
| If out-of-bounds array access had defined behavior, the compiler would
| have to insert a bounds check ("if (i >= array_length)") on every single
| iteration. Because out-of-bounds access is UB, the compiler can assume
| n is always within bounds. This allows it to unroll the loop,
| vectorize it using SIMD instructions, and process 8 or 16 elements per
| CPU cycle, yielding massive performance gains.

  Well, there are some tests that can be taken out of loops (as
  in Java), but other tests can't.



Date Sujet#  Auteur
27 May 26 * this girl calls c ugly363fir
27 May 26 `* Re: this girl calls c ugly362fir
28 May 26  `* Re: this girl calls c ugly361BGB
28 May 26   +* Re: this girl calls c ugly5Lawrence D’Oliveiro
28 May 26   i+* Re: this girl calls c ugly3BGB
29 May 26   ii`* Re: this girl calls c ugly2Lawrence D’Oliveiro
29 May 26   ii `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1BGB
28 May 26   i`- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Bonita Montero
28 May 26   +* Re: this girl calls c ugly19Janis Papanagnou
28 May 26   i+* Re: this girl calls c ugly15BGB
29 May 26   ii+- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Lawrence D’Oliveiro
29 May 26   ii`* Re: this girl calls c ugly13Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26   ii `* Re: this girl calls c ugly12BGB
29 May 26   ii  +* Re: this girl calls c ugly9David Brown
29 May 26   ii  i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly8BGB
30 May 26   ii  i `* Re: this girl calls c ugly7David Brown
30 May 26   ii  i  +* Re: this girl calls c ugly2Janis Papanagnou
30 May 26   ii  i  i`- Re: this girl calls c ugly1David Brown
30 May 26   ii  i  `* Re: this girl calls c ugly4BGB
31 May 26   ii  i   `* Re: this girl calls c ugly3David Brown
31 May 26   ii  i    `* Re: this girl calls c ugly2BGB
31 May 26   ii  i     `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1David Brown
29 May 26   ii  +- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Janis Papanagnou
30 May 26   ii  `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Lawrence D’Oliveiro
28 May 26   i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly3Chris M. Thomasson
29 May 26   i `* Re: this girl calls c ugly2Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26   i  `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Chris M. Thomasson
28 May 26   `* Re: this girl calls c ugly336fir
28 May 26    `* Re: this girl calls c ugly335BGB
29 May 26     +* Re: this girl calls c ugly328Lawrence D’Oliveiro
29 May 26     i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly327Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26     i `* Re: this girl calls c ugly326Bart
29 May 26     i  +* Re: this girl calls c ugly310Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26     i  i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly309Bart
29 May 26     i  i +* Re: this girl calls c ugly9Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26     i  i i+* Re: this girl calls c ugly2Bart
29 May 26     i  i ii`- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26     i  i i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly6Bart
29 May 26     i  i i +* Re: this girl calls c ugly4Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26     i  i i i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly3Bart
29 May 26     i  i i i `* Re: this girl calls c ugly2Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26     i  i i i  `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Bart
29 May 26     i  i i `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Keith Thompson
29 May 26     i  i `* Re: this girl calls c ugly299tTh
29 May 26     i  i  `* Re: this girl calls c ugly298Bart
29 May 26     i  i   +* Re: this girl calls c ugly296Keith Thompson
29 May 26     i  i   i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly295Bart
29 May 26     i  i   i +- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Janis Papanagnou
29 May 26     i  i   i `* Re: this girl calls c ugly293Keith Thompson
29 May 26     i  i   i  `* Re: this girl calls c ugly292Bart
29 May 26     i  i   i   +* Re: this girl calls c ugly5Keith Thompson
30 May 26     i  i   i   i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly4James Kuyper
30 May 26     i  i   i   i `* Re: this girl calls c ugly3Bart
30 May 26     i  i   i   i  `* Re: this girl calls c ugly2Keith Thompson
30 May 26     i  i   i   i   `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Bart
30 May 26     i  i   i   `* Re: this girl calls c ugly286Dan Cross
30 May 26     i  i   i    +* Re: this girl calls c ugly282Bart
31 May 26     i  i   i    i+* Re: this girl calls c ugly280Keith Thompson
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii+* Re: this girl calls c ugly5Janis Papanagnou
31 May 26     i  i   i    iii+* Re: this girl calls c ugly2Keith Thompson
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    iiii`- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Janis Papanagnou
31 May 26     i  i   i    iii`* Re: this girl calls c ugly2David Brown
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    iii `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Janis Papanagnou
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii`* Re: this girl calls c ugly274Richard Harnden
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii +* Re: this girl calls c ugly169David Brown
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii i+* Re: this girl calls c ugly166Bart
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii ii+* Re: this girl calls c ugly140David Brown
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii iii`* Re: this girl calls c ugly139James Kuyper
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii iii `* Re: this girl calls c ugly138David Brown
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii iii  +* Re: this girl calls c ugly4James Kuyper
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii iii  i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly3David Brown
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii iii  i `* Re: this girl calls c ugly2James Kuyper
1 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii  i  `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1David Brown
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii iii  `* Re: this girl calls c ugly133Keith Thompson
1 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   +* Re: this girl calls c ugly2David Brown
1 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   i`- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Keith Thompson
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   +* Re: this girl calls c ugly129Janis Papanagnou
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   i+- Re: this girl calls c ugly1James Kuyper
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   i+* Constants and undefined behavior82Tim Rentsch
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii`* Re: Constants and undefined behavior81Dan Cross
4 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior80Tim Rentsch
4 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii  `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior79Dan Cross
4 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   +* Re: Constants and undefined behavior31Keith Thompson
5 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   i+* Re: Constants and undefined behavior28Dan Cross
5 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   ii+* Re: Constants and undefined behavior24Keith Thompson
6 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iii+* Re: Constants and undefined behavior19Dan Cross
6 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii`* Re: Constants and undefined behavior18Keith Thompson
8 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior17Dan Cross
8 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii  +* Re: Constants and undefined behavior5Keith Thompson
9 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii  i`* Re: Constants and undefined behavior4Dan Cross
9 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii  i `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior3Keith Thompson
9 Jun10:46     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii  i  `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior2Dan Cross
9 Jun23:07     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii  i   `- Re: Constants and undefined behavior1Keith Thompson
9 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii  `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior11Waldek Hebisch
9 Jun23:29     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii   +* Re: Constants and undefined behavior3James Kuyper
10 Jun00:01     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii   i`* Re: Constants and undefined behavior2Keith Thompson
10 Jun13:36     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii   i `- Re: Constants and undefined behavior1Dan Cross
11 Jun15:49     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii   `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior7Janis Papanagnou
11 Jun16:20     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii    +* Re: Constants and undefined behavior2Dan Cross
11 Jun17:08     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii    i`- Re: Constants and undefined behavior1Janis Papanagnou
11 Jun17:30     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iiii    `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior4Waldek Hebisch
6 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   iii`* Re: Constants and undefined behavior4Tim Rentsch
5 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   ii`* Re: Constants and undefined behavior3Janis Papanagnou
7 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   i`* Re: Constants and undefined behavior2Tim Rentsch
9 Jun07:05     i  i   i    ii iii   ii   `* Re: Constants and undefined behavior47Tim Rentsch
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly45Keith Thompson
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii iii   `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Chris M. Thomasson
2 Jun 26     i  i   i    ii ii`* Re: this girl calls c ugly25Dan Cross
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii i`* Re: this girl calls c ugly2James Kuyper
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii +* Re: this girl calls c ugly2Keith Thompson
31 May 26     i  i   i    ii `* Re: this girl calls c ugly102Tim Rentsch
31 May 26     i  i   i    i`- Re: this girl calls c ugly1Dan Cross
1 Jun 26     i  i   i    `* Re: this girl calls c ugly3Tim Rentsch
30 May 26     i  i   `- Re: this girl calls c ugly1David Brown
29 May 26     i  +* Re: this girl calls c ugly6Janis Papanagnou
30 May 26     i  `* Re: this girl calls c ugly9Lawrence D’Oliveiro
29 May 26     `* Re: this girl calls c ugly6Bonita Montero

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