Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.

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Sujet : Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.
De : 643-408-1753 (at) *nospam* kylheku.com (Kaz Kylheku)
Groupes : comp.lang.lisp
Date : 04. Apr 2024, 01:16:46
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <20240403161243.959@kylheku.com>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
User-Agent : slrn/pre1.0.4-9 (Linux)
On 2024-04-03, Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> wrote:
On 2024-04-03, Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> wrote:
Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> writes:
   If you think about it, it's actually kind of ignorant to invent a
   programming language with imperative if statements, but in which where
   the math conditional is missing.
>
If you think like a historian, you don't describe this as "ignorant".
It's just not something that was above the horizon in the mind set of
the time.  After all, that mathematical notation you are referring to
isn't something that mathematicians get very formal about.
>
That is a fair observation; roughly speaking, higher languages first
evolved from that of the machine.  Why we have an if /statement/ is that
the machine has testing and branching in its instruction set, which are
also statements. The imperative language that works by jumping around
and shuffling mainly word-sized quantities inside a Von Neumann machine
is an abstraction of machine language, not an abstraction of functions.
>
The abstraction of machine language isn't ignorant, it's just different.

But, right, okay; I lost a thoguht I had some hours earlier about this.
By the time we have a higher level language inspired by math formulas in
which you can do A * B + C, and define math-like functions, you would
think that the right synapse would fire between the right two brain
cells, so that a value-yielding conditional would be supplied.  When you
have translation of arithmetic formulas to machine language, the scene
is ripe for such an operator. So maybe ignorance is a strong word, but
there is a margin for disappointment.

--
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

Date Sujet#  Auteur
2 Apr 24 * Lisp history: IF, etc.56Alan Bawden
2 Apr 24 +- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Kaz Kylheku
3 Apr 24 +- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Gijs Hillenius
3 Apr 24 +- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Gijs Hillenius
3 Apr 24 +* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.49Madhu
3 Apr 24 i`* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.48Alan Bawden
3 Apr 24 i +* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.35Paul Rubin
3 Apr 24 i i`* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.34Alan Bawden
4 Apr 24 i i +* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.32Paul Rubin
4 Apr 24 i i i+* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.5Lawrence D'Oliveiro
4 Apr 24 i i ii+* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.3Axel Reichert
4 Apr 24 i i iii+- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
4 Apr 24 i i iii`- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Paul Rubin
4 Apr 24 i i ii`- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Kaz Kylheku
4 Apr 24 i i i`* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.26Alan Bawden
5 Apr 24 i i i `* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.25Paul Rubin
5 Apr 24 i i i  `* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.24Julieta Shem
5 Apr 24 i i i   +- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Julieta Shem
6 Apr 24 i i i   +- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
15 Apr 24 i i i   `* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.21Paul Rubin
16 Apr 24 i i i    `* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.20Jeff Barnett
16 Apr 24 i i i     +* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
16 Apr 24 i i i     i`- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Jeff Barnett
16 Apr 24 i i i     +* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.16Paul Rubin
16 Apr 24 i i i     i`* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.15Jeff Barnett
16 Apr 24 i i i     i `* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.14Lawrence D'Oliveiro
16 Apr 24 i i i     i  +* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.12Paul Rubin
17 Apr 24 i i i     i  i`* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.11Lawrence D'Oliveiro
17 Apr 24 i i i     i  i `* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.10Paul Rubin
17 Apr 24 i i i     i  i  `* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.9Jeff Barnett
17 Apr 24 i i i     i  i   `* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.8Lawrence D'Oliveiro
17 Apr 24 i i i     i  i    `* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.7Paul Rubin
17 Apr 24 i i i     i  i     +* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.3Madhu
18 Apr 24 i i i     i  i     i`* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
18 Apr 24 i i i     i  i     i `- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Paul Rubin
17 Apr 24 i i i     i  i     `* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.3Ben Bacarisse
18 Apr 24 i i i     i  i      `* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
18 Apr 24 i i i     i  i       `- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Stefan Monnier
17 Apr 24 i i i     i  `- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Jeff Barnett
17 Apr 24 i i i     `- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Stefan Ram
4 Apr 24 i i `- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Ben Bacarisse
3 Apr 24 i +* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.7Kaz Kylheku
4 Apr 24 i i+* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.5Alan Bawden
4 Apr 24 i ii+* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.3Kaz Kylheku
4 Apr 24 i iii`* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.2Kaz Kylheku
4 Apr 24 i iii `- on levels of disappointment (Was: Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.)1Julieta Shem
4 Apr 24 i ii`- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Julieta Shem
5 Apr 24 i i`- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Spiros Bousbouras
4 Apr 24 i +* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
4 Apr 24 i i`* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.2Alan Bawden
4 Apr 24 i i `- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Kaz Kylheku
12 Apr 24 i `* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.2Alan Bawden
12 Apr 24 i  `- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
4 Apr 24 `* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.3Kaz Kylheku
4 Apr 24  `* Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.2Alan Bawden
4 Apr 24   `- Re: Lisp history: IF, etc.1Lawrence D'Oliveiro

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