Re: home screen icon to connect to wi-fi network

On 9/29/2024 9:03 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:

What, exactly, do you mean, by "this"? (See what I mean, below.)

 
In my sentence "this" means "upload your unique BSSID/SSID pair to
Internet databases".

You seem to be intelligent in that you've looked up how it works,
so that's good as it's worth it for me to try to explain networking.

All of this information is on the Internet but you have to know what to
look for and you have to know what kinds of specific questions to ask.

The upload of your BSSID/SSID (only the unique BSSID matters) doesn't
happen from your phone so much as from everyone else's phone.

It also happens from your phone if you let Google do it.
But you have total control over that so it shouldn't do it.

But I have auto-connect turned off, so the phone is not "looking" for any
WAP, and therefore once the phone is disconnected from that WAP, it stops
sending those packets containing the BSSID of the home router WAP.

 
Yes, but as soon as you connect, this is not the case any longer. So
your *own* WiFi network will be known.

You need to think about the situation at home being DIFFERENT from the
situation away from home - and you need to realize the situation is
DIFFERENT depending on how you set up your home router's access point.

In my situation, when I'm at home, the router is not shouting out the
access point BSSID so it's not being uploaded to Internet databases.

However, that means in my case, I need to either connect manually (entering
in the passphrase & SSID for example) every time I connect, or, I need to
press an existing saved network, which is set to not auto connect again.

From what I know of networking, in that case, the packets will certainly
show the BSSID but not in the broadcast sense - which is what the Internet
databases are obtaining from every Android phone that drives by your home.

Only wardrivers will see them, and that's something you can't prevent
directly, but randomizing every BSSID by access point (which Android now
does by default) and by every connection (which is set in Developer
options) goes a long way in preventing wardrivers making use of the BSSID.

You seem to be aware of this MAC randomization feature, which negates (we
hope) most of the threat from those wardrivers sniffing all the packets.

Given that situation, I suspect the correct answer to your excellent
question is that the packets are fundamentally different when a phone is
"looking" to connect to a WAP versus when the phone "is" connected to it.

 
The phone will automatically see any broadcasted SSIDs and connect to it
when *when* it knows that SSID. There is no need to broadcast anything
at all.

Not when it's a hidden access point.

The good news is you seem to have subsequently looked up how networking
works, so you realize I have been saying correctly how it works all along.

Any phone not already set up for that hidden access point doesn't even see
that hidden access point - which is the whole point of making APs hidden.

As for your own phone, for convenience, your own phone is set to remember
the access point, but your own phone is also set to NOT auto reconnect.

Any other pairing settings will defeat the purpose as the router must be
set to hide the access point (to prevent upload into Internet databases,
whether or not you use "_nomap") and at the same time, your own phone is
usually set for convenience to "remember" that hidden access point
credentials, but to never automatically connect to it (which is what
prevents your phone from shouting out the "Are you here?" command when
you're at the local cannabis shop buying that classic bong of the 70s).

You do not have to set your phone to remember the hidden connection, but
then you'd have to enter your SSID & passphrase every time you get home.

While I can't control other people's phones, they are set up by Google to
look for the "I'm here!" packet (which I'll call the "broadcast" packet).
 
And while I can't control nefarious stores like the Cannabis store or the
Pawn shop, they too are looking at the "Are you there?" packets I assume.

 
You assume wrong. A WiFi router does not send any "are you here" packet.

Since I can tell you know how basic networking works at the highest level,
I think what's confusing you is there are DIFFERENT ways to set it all up.

Under a normal setup, with the router access point not hidden, and with the
phone set up to automatically reconnect to that known access point, your
router DOES advertise the availability of the "I'm here" packet.

That router "I'm here" packet is what most Android phones driving by your
house pick up and send to Internet databases (even if you append "_nomap").

It will usally just broadcast the SSID and all clients which know the
SSID might try to connect to it.

Yes. I knew you understood the highest level of basic networking, which
everyone knows, which is that if you set your home router to not hide your
access point, then the router screams out "I'm here" to all the world.

The Android phones driving by your home use that "I'm here" packet to
upload your GPS location and unique BSSID to the Internet databases.

This happens whether or not you append "_nomap" or "_optout_" to the SSID.

This happens BECAUSE of two things, one of which is you allowed your router
to broadcast the "I'm here" packet, and the Android defaults allow the
phone to upload those "I'm here" packets into Internet databases.

On my setup, that does not happen.

I can't teach you a course in networking here, but the simplest way to
answer your question is to first patiently explain that most phones are set
to auto-connect to a known WAP if it sees it, and most routers are set to
broadcast the WAP's presence, but that's not the situation in my setup.

 
Just name a website where all this is explained.

You didn't google first. And yet, nothing I've said has been wrong.

Do you have a source where one can learn more about this?

 
It's basic stuff. Nothing I've said is incorrect so it's everywhere.

 
So then it should be easy to name at least one of the websites which are
"everywhere".

My fee to teach people who don't google, is $200 an hour.

That allows anyone with even minimum skills to track your every movement.
I don't want that.

>
With even "minimum skills"? How?

 
Again, this is kid's stuff. It's basic networking. Very simple. Look it up.

 
No - *you* claim something, then *you* name the sources.

This is tantamount to claiming I'm a liar - which - is an unsound
assumption for you since it's clear you didn't even google for it once.

First google it. Otherwise pay me my $200/hour.