Re: EI mew ;abeling regulations June 20th 2025

On 2025-01-05 20:44:40 +0000, Scott said:

On 05 Jan 2025 20:19:22 +0000 (GMT), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

In uk.telecom.mobile Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:47:44 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:33:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:45:14 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Pamela wrote:

 Wasn't there also a requirement for the battery to be user replaceable?

 Not in effect for a couple of years, I think ...

 https://environment.ec.europa.eu/news/new-law-more-sustainable-circular-and-safe-batteries-enters-force-2023-08-17_en   2027, though I can?t find an exact date. Not just phones either.

 Electric vehicles?

 I don?t think so. Things like power tools, radios, toothbrushes etc. A user replaceable EV battery could be quite a dangerous affair.

 It might improve the residual value though.

 Unlikely. Batteries are around £2500 per 10kWhr retail judging by the cost of a house battery.

 Would it not allow an aftermarket for generic batteries instead of
being bound by the OEM? I was offered a second hand Zoe at a very low
price at one stage but when I realised the battery arrangements (lease
from Renault) and the very low range of such a model I dismissed the
idea very quickly.

 EV batteries weigh about 200kg.  Consumers aren't going to be changing them
because they don't have the lifting gear (hydraulic lifts and scissor
tables).  If you have gear unscrewing them from the bottom of the vehicle is
not complicated, although could be dangerous without safety precautions.  In
no world are consumers going to be changing them like they change wiper
blades.
 Batteries are designed to fit the car so you need to swap in an OEM battery
- just like engines it may theoretically be possible to swap something else,
but it's a lot of work (mechanically, electrically and software).  There is
no standard 1.6 engine that'll fit in every car, and batteries are similarly
bespoke.

 That puts paid to the idea of having a standard battery for all the
cars and swapping them from underneath at the filling station using a
mechanical arm as was suggested at one time :-)

There are already some battery pack swapping robot places for EV cars and it can be done in five minutes or less, although it depends on the car model, etc. and reportedly is expensive. Most of these places are currently in China, but there are a few in other places (California has a few Nio swap stations).
At one point there was the idea of having multiple smaller battery packs that could be easily user swappable in the same simple "plug 'n' play" way as many electric tools. It was also suggest the small battery packs could be swapped at places like supermarkets and petrol stations (deposit a flat battery, take a full one, and the flat battery is recharged for another user). This idea hasn't been taken up by any manufacturer yet.
Part of the problem is the cvar manufacturers all having their own designs for the battery packs and how they are fitted. There would need to be a standardisation before easy battery swapping became a real possibility.