Re: Canta and Shizuku

On Tue, 1 Jul 2025 15:26:00 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote :

But it turns out, based on my search results, that I didn't even need to
use adb to start the Shizuku trickle rooter because there's a "pairing
code" in Android 13 Wireless Debugging which eliminates the adb step.

 
Good to know that it confirms adb isn't required.

Hi Jeff,
I agree. Shizuku works without adb. It even enables adb on the phone.
Much like "localadb" (aka ladb) does - but for free (unlike ladb).

Since I use adb every second of the day, it's not a big deal for me.
Here are the distinctions I learned from searching your questions:

a. If you use USB/ADB, then trickle rooting persists until reboot.
b. If you use wireless (sans adb) it persists until a factor reset.
c. However, if Android changes the port, then you have to repeat.

I would not have known any of that had you not asked your question.
Hence I appreciate that we can all learn together, as a team.

Looks like Shizuku has
had a helpful update since you tried it last. But I'm a bit confused -
that link I gave at <https://shizuku-manager.en.uptodown.com/android>
states "In order to use Shizuku on a non-rooted smartphone, you'll need
to go through a somewhat complex process. Luckily, the app itself has a
tutorial that explains what to do step by step. You'll need access to a
PC and a cable to connect your Android smartphone to the computer." What
are you connecting the smartphone to a computer for if it's not to use adb?

Heh heh heh .... that's super confusing, isn't it? I agree.
It's *simpler* than that - although I already know how to use adb.

If you already are using adb, all you really do is cut and paste a single
command that is the same command on every Android so it's just one step.
 C:\> adb shell sh /storage/emulated/0/Android/data/moe.shizuku.privileged.api/start.sh

It's not too much more difficult to use wireless debugging without adb.
But... and this is big... I had trouble with the necessary split screen.

In summary, the "somewhat complex" process is different for each manner.
A. If you use adb, then you have to know how to use adb first.
B. If you use wireless, then you have to know how to use it first.

Both require some knowledge ahead of time.
Now, I have all that knowledge as I've been using adb & wireless debugging.

But others might not have experience in using adb & wireless debugging.
So they incur a learning curve hurdle that I've already long ago passed.

Note that even with wireless debugging experience, my problem with setting
up Shizuku a year ago was that you need SIMULTANEOUS access to both GUIs.

This is said to restart the connection, but it's also said to be a bit
flaky in that Android might change the port out from under Shizuku.

 
Any reason it would do that other than perhaps an update to Android
itself? Or is there something which sets port choice as a privilege for
certain apps above others?

Oh... oh my. You're asking the wrong person.
Don't even get me started on the operating system changing ports under you.

Seriously. It's happened to me so many times on Windows that I'm flustered.
Hence, my advice is to accept that wireless debugging is flakier than adb.
 

My assessment?
a. It was a pain to set it up wirelessly (long ago),
b. But it's plenty easy to set it up with adb/usb.

 
I'm not clear - can it be set up wirelessly without adb?
That should make things a bit easier.

Let me first ask you a question (actually two questions).
1. Have you ever set up adb over USB between the PC & Android?
2. Have you ever set up adb over Wireless Debugging?
   Or... have you ever set up Wireless Debugging (w/o adb)?

If you've never used adb (over either wireless debugging or usb), then you
have a learning curve to overcome that I already long ago overcame.

If you've never used wireless debugging (with or without adb), then you
have a DIFFERENT learning curve to overcome that I already overcame.

If you ask me, I'd recommend adb over USB for simplicity for Shizuku.
Hands down.
 

So now I need to find an app that I want that can use Shizuku.
Searching, I found the following apps will take trickle rooting.
1. App Ops - Permission Manager (by Rikka, Shizuku's developer)
2. Universal Android Debloater (UAD)
3. Hail / Ice Box / Canta (App Freezers/Disablers)
4. DarQ
5. LSposed (and its modules)
6. AShell (or similar terminal apps)

 
App Ops was mentioned in the Shizuku link, and I did look at it, but
thought it was getting a bit OT for something which seemed complicated
enough already!

Well, the entire point of Shizuku is to trickle root a phone, but that
doesn't do anything in and of itself without an app that uses it. :)

You already seem to have picked Canta for that, which is fine.
Apparently Canta is more focused on debloating than app freezing.

What is it that you want to accomplish anyway?

What I need now is to install one of the apps that uses Shizuku trickle
privileges, which will likely be App Ops but this is already too long.

 
I wondered if you'd played with either Canta or Shizuku, although
Shizuku seemed more likely.

Well, you can't play with Canta without Shizuku (or being rooted).

I had "tried" Shizuku a year ago but failed using wireless debugging.
The reason is it's a bitch to get SIMULTANEOUS inputs on my phone.

I gave up too soon as I tried yesterday, after seeing your post.
And I found it was trivial to activate Shizuku using adb over usb.

But... and this is big... I've already climbed the adb learning curve.
And I've already climbed the wireless debugging learning curve.

If anyone wants to use Shizuku, they have to climb one of those.
I would suggest using adb over USB for a whole bunch of reasons.

I hadn't heard of either, and only came across Canta a couple of days
ago when I did one of my infrequent peeks at "Latest" in F-Droid.
Usually there's nothing of interest, but when "Canta" appeared it was of
interest because my phone (like yours) is not rootable. I'd wondered,
because of your previous posts mentioning that your phone was
unrootable, if Canta/Shizuku might be of use, so posted that very open
question here.

I read every post to this newsgroup except those from Joerg or Alan.
I think you're the first person to ask about these tools on this ng.

That's why I stepped in to help.
And in doing so, I learned more about Shizuku - which is good.

As for Canta, I wouldn't even think of using it at this point.
I'd use the Universal Android Debloater (UAD) with Shizuku instead.

At the moment, I have no need for UAD though as I'm debloated.

I debloated long ago every suspicious package, one by one using adb to
uninstall packages that Muntashirakon listed for me as bloatware.

Having done that manually, I can see the advantage of UAD.
Next time I need to debloat, I'll probably use Shizuku with UAD.

Of course, nothing's simple, and it soon became apparent that Shizuku
was required for Canta to work. If you ask me, it seems that Shizuku is
the critical app, and Canta piggy-backs on it (like the other half-dozen
or so apps you mentioned).

Yes. Shizuki is required for Canta to work on a non-rooted Android.

Anyway, thanks for investigating what they do and how they work. It
looks like they may be of even more use in future as manufacturers
strive to put even more bloatware on new phones!

I've never had problems with bloatware but I delete them on sight.
Most people just complain about it. :)

Anyway, thanks for bringing up this Shizuku/Canta stuff because in being
purposefully helpful to you, I learned more about Android myself.

My recommendation to others is:
a. By all means, learn how to set up & use adb over USB.
   Then, if desired, learn how to set up & use adb over wireless debugging.
b. Then, and only then, set up Shizuku using adb over USB
   Or, if desired, set up Shizuku using wireless debugging.

The learning hurdle isn't in Shizuku.
The learning hurdle is in setting up adb and/or wireless debugging.