On Tue, 3/25/2025 12:39 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-03-25 11:25, Frank Slootweg wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-24 3:08 p.m., Frank Slootweg wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-24 2:41 p.m., Frank Slootweg wrote:
[...]
AFAIC, this 'AMD stuttering' issue is old and fixed 'news'.
>
See the January thread 'This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS --
If Your Time Is Worth Nothing' in these groups.
>
See Andrzej Matuch's post [1] in that thread and my and his responses.
>
As mentioned in my last response [2], in my case there was a BIOS
firmware update.
>
[1] Message-ID: <z0ldP.24349$DPp5.18068@fx01.iad>
[2] Message-ID: <vl92ie.qp8.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
>
Except that it's not fixed. Some manufacturers might have provided a
BIOS to fix the issue, but most have yet to do so on the laptop side. My
model computer, the Zephyrus GA401QM, hasn't had a BIOS update since
2023. Everyone expected that the 415 update would fix the issue since it
was repeatedly mentioned by users, but ASUS never bothered to fix it.
The most likely reason is because they can't.
>
In the previous thread, Andrzej references
<https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-acknowledges-ftpm-stuttering-issues-promises-a-bios-fix-in-may>
>
From that, I understand that AMD supplies the fix to the manufacturers,
which of course have to integrate it in their firmware. If those
manufacturers - in your case ASUS - fail to do so, that's hardly AMD's
fault. That's the risk of using fTPM, instead of a real TPM.
>
As I said, my system was fixed and - as I mentioned in the other
thread - that is a (2022) (HP) *laptop*.
>
Did the latest (or any previous) BIOS update mention fixing fTPM
specifically? I ask because it is also possible that the problem is
still there but that you haven't yet encountered it.
>
To be [f|F]rank, you could well be right. The 'Fixes'/'Revision
history' I have (the publicly available ones) do not specifically
mention fixing fTPM, only general comments such as "improved security"
and "improved system stability".
>
As I mentioned in the other thread, this was the only BIOS update
which was force installed and was released after the AMD fTPM problem
was fixed by AMD.
>
Bottom line: I think the problem was fixed in my laptop, but don't
have any actual proof.
Well, if in the future you are watching any kind of media and the sound
becomes extremely distorted for three seconds, as if the space-time
continuum has been broken, you will have faced fTPM stuttering.
https://www.amd.com/en/resources/support-articles/faqs/PA-410.html "Flashable updates for motherboards will be based on AMD AGESA 1207 (or newer)"
You could try checking any BIOS release notes, as sometimes they list
the AGESA installed into the BIOS file for that release. Like, some BIOS
updates, have been just to change AGESA. Other times, there can be
multiple things changed, including the AGESA version.
When an AMD system starts, I believe a serial stream is sent from
the PCH to the CPU, and it "programs something", in the dynamic sense.
There's a RAM or something storing what was sent in the serial stream.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGESA "AMD Generic Encapsulated Software Architecture (AGESA) is a procedure library
developed by Advanced Micro Devices (AMD), used to perform the
Platform Initialization (PI) on mainboards using their AMD64 architecture.
As part of the BIOS of such mainboards, AGESA is responsible for the initialization
of the CPU cores, chipset, main memory, and the HyperTransport controller."
Notice that fTPM is not mentioned. The fTPM could be implemented in the
Secure Enclave, and the Secure Enclave (it's like an ARM core, on an x86 CPU!)
could be programmed by AGESA.
The above AMD note mentions it is an SPI I/O issue (for NVRAM usage like
storing fTPM values). It's unlikely they could hide that altogether. And they
can't batch up the changes, or the changes could be lost on a power fail,
and the changes could affect something cryptographic.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/sccict/amd_ftpm_causes_random_stuttering_issue/ # Example of stutter while streaming
https://youtu.be/TYnRL-x6DVI*******
On Linux, it was a different issue. In the 6 kernel series,
the fTPM was "trusted" to do random number generation (cryptographic quality),
and I guess this caused the same sort of side effects. I already wrote
a little program maybe a year ago, and there is a 500MB/sec RNG on the
AMD CPU, outside of any fTPM implementation, but it may not be "whitened"
enough for cryptographic purposes. Normally, Linus is suspicious of
hardware RNG, and I think the AMD one may just be a metastability based
generator (it's not a whizzy one at least, not relying on some new
laboratory principle). Consequently, I "discount" the firehose generator,
as not really worth your time. And where would the fTPM code be
getting its random numbers ? At Best Buy ? Or, from that firehose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AwwAN0ysLQSo far, I'm not detecting a sense that "a single BIOS update fixes this".
If that were the case, all the influencers would be selling BIOS updates.
Seeing as the last TPM I priced was $70 (when they started out at around
$25 each), not everyone will want to climb onto the physical TPM bandwagon.
Because it rewards scalpers and so on. It's really difficult to understand
what has happened to TPMs on the supply side. All I know is
"my computer store no longer stocks them". Why ? Fucked if I know.
But it does help raise the price. When those first came out for AM4,
they were like fricken "candy" at the computer store. They might have
had a pile of a hundred of them sitting there. You would think the stutter
issue, would have "brought them back into stock". But no.
Summary: Test via streaming I guess. Windows Media Player may have a streaming
server in it. VLC may have a streaming server in it. See what you can
cobble together.
Paul
Windows-on-ARM Laptop Is A “Frequently-Returned Item” On Amazon
Re: Windows-on-ARM Laptop Is A “Frequently-Returned Item” On Amazon
