Re: Ubuntu, The Pussy Distro, Is Going Rust

Le 31-03-2025, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> a écrit :

On 2025-03-30 09:35, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

Le 24-03-2025, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> a écrit :

>
They use it, but there's a reason that a lot of distributions like Linux
Mint haven't yet defaulted to it: it's problematic.

 
Nope. The distros don't switch from x11 to Wayland. The Windows Managers
do. And the distros are only choosing default Windows Managers who have
switched to Waylang or not.

>
Dude, you know what I meant.

It's exactly as I said. Ubuntu is using Gnome which has switched to
wayland and is using wayland by default. I installed cinamon on a Ubuntu
distro and the wayland version is considered experimental. As Mint is
using cinamon by default so Mint hasn't switched to wayland because of
cinamon, not because of the distro choice. So it's exactly what I said
and so, no, I don't know what you mean.

X11 continues to be available in most distributions that have
otherwise defaulted to Wayland.

Unlike what FR/DG/LP/FF/whatever claims, the distro provide a lot of
window managers. Not only the default one. So as long as some major
window managers haven't switch to wayland, they have to provide it. So,
once again, it's not the distro which switches, it's the window manager.

And the programs. Most often, the programs can run under xwayland, but
in a few cases, they can't and they have to adapt. But if they are
unwilling to adapt, it's not because wayland is unfinished, it's because
of the softwares adaptation.

Because I'm pretty sure you can't understand what I mean, I'll explain
it a little bit. With X11 a program can access the all window manager.
Which means that if you are running a program which asks you your
password, any program can know it. So, to avoid that wayland limits the
actions a program can do to other programs. And so some programs need to
adapt to that. If they don't they won't run. It's not because wayland is
unfinished.

It's like a Windows program who want to run on Linux. It needs to
consider "C:" doesn't exist in Linux and it needs to use "/home"
instead. If the program refuse to take care of that, it won't run. It's
not because Linux is unfinished, it's because the program didn't adapt
to Linux specificities.

However, the fact remains that without intervention, the user who
doesn't know what an "X11" or "Wayland" is will be using whatever the
people maintaining the distribution have decided.

OK, so you exactly said that most of people running Ubuntu on wayland
don't see a difference. So, if wayland is unfinished, how so many people
use it unknowingly? Because the issue about wayland is not about it being
unfinished, but about the lies spread by some people who don't like it
without technical reason. Like FR/FF/LP/DG/whatever they don't like it
because they want to be stuck in the past and their ungrounded feelings
have replaced their brains.

Those problems relate to it not being a finished product.

 
It's more finished than X11 and X11 will never improve. Today a lot of
people are using more than one monitor. And the management of different
monitors with X11 is just a joke and will stay like that forever. Unlike
all of your monitors have the same size, X11 isn't designed to manage
them and will never be able to manage them correctly.

>
I've heard the same thing yet X11 does a better job of managing multiple
monitors for me than Wayland does. Of course, I say this as an NVIDIA
user. I imagine that it's much better if you're running on AMD or Intel.

The driver is irrelevant here. The driver is drawing only what it's
told. For example, when I'm switching a Firefox tab from one monitor to
one other, it's garbage on X11. On one monitor, It'll be far too small
to be readable, when on the other it's good. If I want to increase the
font size where it's too little, the other becomes so big there is
nothing displayed. And Wayland manages that far better. There are some
improvements which are needed on wayland, but unlike X11 which will never
improve, wayland is improving.

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