Re: Joy of this, Joy of that

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 11:59:17 +0100, D wrote:
>
>

But there is this wonderful inflection point, where christianity went
from a personal mystic method to find enlightenment, to become a tool to
control and build society.
>
I wonder if the mystics lost because of 1. being more interested in the
"within" and personal experience than power and 2. the other guys being
more interested in power and cared nothing for god, but saw the
opportunity. I guess the 3. is St Paul fearing that christianity would
split into a 1000 pieces if the mystics with their own individual
experiences were allowed to continue.

>
Other than the Gnostics I don't see much mysticism in early Christianity
rather than sort of a consoling belief for the lumpen proletariat.
Constantine was the start of the control.

True.

Mystics like Ecckhart, John of the Cross, Tauler, Teresa of Avila, and so
forth were a problem for the hierarchy and treated with suspicion if not
outright condemned as heretics.

Yes.

Even in recent times Teilhard de Chardin was ordered not to publish or
teach his ideas. That's no different than Eckhart who would have been
ignored if he hadn't tried to teach.

I find it interesting how in our modern and enlightened times (say from the 1950s and onward) there's been a "merge" with eastern spirituality where christian writers have "christianized" eastern meditational practices, and sometimes almost re-invented what the original crew you mentioned above did several 100 years earlier.
I believe the phenomenon of religion has a common, personal "core", and that after the original inspired founder was gone, the path to using his teachings as a way to power starts.
Once it becomes institutionalized, all the deep, meaningful and personal experiences get lost and you just get the ossified, formalized remains left.