Re: The joy of FORTRAN

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Sujet : Re: The joy of FORTRAN
De : c186282 (at) *nospam* nnada.net (c186282)
Groupes : alt.folklore.computers comp.os.linux.misc
Date : 02. Mar 2025, 07:59:40
Autres entêtes
Message-ID : <tcmcnTfrnOhGnFn6nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
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On 3/1/25 3:29 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-03-01, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>
On 2/28/25 7:39 AM, Bob Eager wrote:
>
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 02:34:52 +0000, rbowman wrote:
>
Sadly, macros made their way into C. The basic idea was fine but we had
one programmer who laid awake nights thinking up new perverted things to
do with macros. I forget if it was Kernighan or Ritchie who later said
if they had only known what people would do with them...
>
I probably do far too much with a standalone macro processor...
 If you're doing it for sport, though, there have been lots of
fun things done with macros.  My favourite is an IBM 360 macro
that would solve the Towers of Hanoi problem, and use the MNOTE
directive to show the moves.  It generated no executable code -
the expanded source code listing was the solution.
 I've written a couple of macro processors, and the acid test
for each was to write a recursive Towers of Hanoi macro for them.
 
   It's unfortunately NOT hard to make 'C' *totally
   unreadable*, impossible to follow. Sometimes you
   see the young hot-shots cram a dozen lines worth
   of stuff into a single line with LOTS of punctuation
   characters and bracket tricks. It's also possible to
   obfuscate using too many, esp nested, macros.
>
   Thing is, those ultra-compacted lines don't really
   run any faster - the same functions and ops are
   being run regardless.
 Again, if you're into it for sport, some amazing things
have been done, culminating in the International Obfuscated
C Code Contest:
 https://www.ioccc.org
 
   Being kinda old-school my pgms always look like
   something from the K&R book, and with comments
   after almost every line. THAT you can read a
   day from now, or a year from now ....
>
Never can have enough comments. I usually use lots, but recently I was
looking over some of my old code and had a “what?” moment. It was obvious
when I wrote it.
 I write C the same way.  A wise person on one of these newsfroups
once said that the comments aren't for someone else, they're for
you a year from now.  The more tricky the code, the more detailed
the comments.
   Good advice sadly FEW are willing to take.
   "Well, *I* understand it perfectly (today) !"
   Even 'clear' C is often NOT so clear - neither
   the syntax or logic. You've gotta EXPLAIN every
   step to yourself. Old code almost always has to
   be revised/debugged. Might be a month, a year,
   five years. How the hell DO you figure out what
   you, or anybody, worked 5 years along ? GREAT
   COMMENTING is the only way.
   Every function I wrote had a nice long explain
   at the top, then every line narrated in the
   body. It's the only thing that works.
   Some other langs are a little more self-documenting.
   Pascal is very readable. Python CAN be. COBOL was
   SUPPOSED to be. But even then the exact plan/meanings
   can be LOST after even a short time. The more
   clever the code, the worse it is.
   What's the point in writing complex code if, at
   the first need, you basically have to totally
   re-write the entire damned thing ???
   Oh well, 20 years, only the "AI"s will be
   doing 'programming" ..........

Date Sujet#  Auteur
25 Feb 25 * Re: The joy of FORTRAN567vjp2.at
25 Feb 25 +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN378Lawrence D'Oliveiro
25 Feb 25 i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN377Peter Flass
25 Feb 25 i +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN369John Ames
25 Feb 25 i i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN236John Ames
25 Feb 25 i ii+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN225Peter Flass
26 Feb 25 i iii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN224Lawrence D'Oliveiro
26 Feb 25 i iii +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN219John Ames
26 Feb 25 i iii i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN218Lawrence D'Oliveiro
26 Feb 25 i iii i +- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1John Ames
27 Feb 25 i iii i `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN216Rich Alderson
27 Feb 25 i iii i  +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
28 Feb 25 i iii i  i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1Rich Alderson
27 Feb 25 i iii i  `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN213John Ames
27 Feb 25 i iii i   +* Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN6John Levine
27 Feb 25 i iii i   i+- Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
28 Feb 25 i iii i   i+* Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN2John Levine
28 Feb 25 i iii i   ii`- Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN1John Levine
28 Feb 25 i iii i   i`* Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN2Chris Ahlstrom
1 Mar 25 i iii i   i `- Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
7 Mar 25 i iii i   `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN206Alfred Falk
7 Mar 25 i iii i    `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN205Dan Cross
7 Mar 25 i iii i     +- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1Lynn Wheeler
7 Mar 25 i iii i     `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN203rbowman
8 Mar 25 i iii i      +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3Dan Cross
8 Mar 25 i iii i      i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
8 Mar 25 i iii i      i `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1rbowman
8 Mar 25 i iii i      `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN199c186282
8 Mar 25 i iii i       `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN198rbowman
8 Mar 25 i iii i        +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN75rbowman
8 Mar 25 i iii i        i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN74The Natural Philosopher
9 Mar 25 i iii i        i `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN73c186282
9 Mar 25 i iii i        i  `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN72rbowman
9 Mar 25 i iii i        i   +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN67c186282
9 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN16rbowman
10 Mar 25 i iii i        i   ii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN15c186282
10 Mar 25 i iii i        i   ii `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN14rbowman
10 Mar 25 i iii i        i   ii  +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN7Sn!pe
10 Mar 25 i iii i        i   ii  i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN5rbowman
10 Mar 25 i iii i        i   ii  ii+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3Sn!pe
10 Mar 25 i iii i        i   ii  iii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2rbowman
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   ii  iii `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   ii  ii`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   ii  i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
11 Mar 25 i iii i        i   ii  `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN6c186282
11 Mar 25 i iii i        i   ii   +- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1The Natural Philosopher
11 Mar 25 i iii i        i   ii   `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN4rbowman
13 Mar 25 i iii i        i   ii    `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3c186282
13 Mar 25 i iii i        i   ii     `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2rbowman
13 Mar 25 i iii i        i   ii      `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
10 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN50Rich Alderson
10 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN10c186282
10 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN8rbowman
10 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i ii+- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1rbowman
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i ii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN6c186282
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i ii +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2John Ames
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i ii i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1rbowman
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i ii `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3rbowman
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i ii  `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2Dan Cross
13 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i ii   `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
10 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
10 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN33rbowman
10 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN32The Natural Philosopher
10 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN16rbowman
11 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN13The Natural Philosopher
11 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i ii+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3rbowman
11 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i iii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2The Natural Philosopher
11 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i iii `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1David LaRue
11 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i ii+- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1The Natural Philosopher
11 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i ii+- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
11 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i ii+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN4rbowman
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i iii+- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i iii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2The Natural Philosopher
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i iii `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1The Natural Philosopher
13 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i ii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3c186282
13 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i ii `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2The Natural Philosopher
14 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i ii  `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2c186282
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i i `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1The Natural Philosopher
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN15c186282
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i  `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN14The Natural Philosopher
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i   +- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1The Natural Philosopher
13 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i   `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN12rbowman
13 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i    +- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1rbowman
13 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i    +- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1rbowman
14 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i    +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN6Don_from_AZ
14 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i    i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
14 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i    ii`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
14 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i    i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
14 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i    ii`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
14 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i    i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
15 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i    `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3Peter Flass
15 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i     +- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1rbowman
16 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i i     `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
10 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN6Don_from_AZ
10 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i  +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i  i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i  `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3c186282
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i   `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2The Natural Philosopher
12 Mar 25 i iii i        i   i    `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1rbowman
9 Mar 25 i iii i        i   `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN4Kerr-Mudd, John
8 Mar 25 i iii i        +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN27Dan Espen
9 Mar 25 i iii i        +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN9c186282
9 Mar 25 i iii i        `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN86c186282
26 Feb 25 i iii +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3rbowman
27 Feb 25 i iii `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1Rich Alderson
25 Feb 25 i ii+- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1Peter Flass
26 Feb 25 i ii+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN7Rich
26 Feb 25 i ii`* Re: The joy of old small computers, which sort of ran FORTRAN2John Levine
25 Feb 25 i i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN101Peter Flass
26 Feb 25 i i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN27John Levine
26 Feb 25 i i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3c186282
28 Feb 25 i i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
25 Feb 25 i +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN4Bob Eager
25 Feb 25 i `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
26 Feb 25 `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN188c186282

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