Re: The joy of Democracy

Liste des GroupesRevenir à col misc 
Sujet : Re: The joy of Democracy
De : lynn (at) *nospam* garlic.com (Lynn Wheeler)
Groupes : alt.folklore.computers comp.os.linux.misc
Date : 18. Oct 2024, 18:48:47
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Wheeler&Wheeler
Message-ID : <874j59nvy8.fsf@localhost>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
User-Agent : Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13)
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
The US wasn't all that triggered. The sentiment was to let the Europeans
fight amongst themselves. It took Roosevelt two years to troll the
Japanese into an attack and Hitler stupidly lived up to his agreement with
Japan and declared war on the US. Roosevelt trolled him too but he never
took the bait.

The Great Scandal: Christianity's Role in the Rise of the Nazis
http://churchandstate.org.uk/2016/04/the-great-scandal-christianitys-role-in-the-rise-of-the-nazis/

note that John Foster Dulles played major role rebuilding Germany
economy, industry, military from the 20s up through the early 40s
https://www.amazon.com/Brothers-Foster-Dulles-Allen-Secret-ebook/dp/B00BY5QX1K/
loc865-68: In mid-1931 a consortium of American banks, eager to
safeguard their investments in Germany, persuaded the German
government to accept a loan of nearly $500 million to prevent
default. Foster was their agent. His ties to the German government
tightened after Hitler took power at the beginning of 1933 and
appointed Foster's old friend Hjalmar Schacht as minister of
economics.
loc905-7: Foster was stunned by his brother's suggestion that Sullivan
& Cromwell quit Germany. Many of his clients with interests there,
including not just banks but corporations like Standard Oil and
General Electric, wished Sullivan & Cromwell to remain active
regardless of political conditions.
loc938-40: At least one other senior partner at Sullivan & Cromwell,
Eustace Seligman, was equally disturbed. In October 1939, six weeks
after the Nazi invasion of Poland, he took the extraordinary step of
sending Foster a formal memorandum disavowing what his old friend was
saying about Nazism

From the law of unintended consequences, when US 1943 Strategic
Bombing program needed targets in Germany, they got plans and
coordinates from wallstreet.

June1940, Germany had a victory celebration at the NYC Waldorf-Astoria
with major industrialists. Lots of them were there to hear how to do
business with the Nazis
https://www.amazon.com/Man-Called-Intrepid-Incredible-Narrative-ebook/dp/B00V9QVE5O/
loc1925-29: One prominent figure at the German victory celebration was
Torkild Rieber, of Texaco, whose tankers eluded the British
blockade. The company had already been warned, at Roosevelt's
instigation, about violations of the Neutrality Law. But Rieber had set
up an elaborate scheme for shipping oil and petroleum products through
neutral ports in South America.


Intrepid also points finger at Ambassador Kennedy ... they start
bugging the US embassy because classified information was leaking to
the Germans. They eventually identified a clerk as responsible but
couldn't prove ties to Kennedy. However Kennedy is claiming credit
for Chamberland capitulating to Hitler on many issues ... also making
speeches in Britain and the US that Britain could never win a war with
Germany and if he was president, he would be on the best of terms with
Hitler.

loc2645-52: The Kennedys dined with the Roosevelts that evening. Two
days later, Joseph P. Kennedy spoke on nationwide radio. A startled
public learned he now believed "Franklin D. Roosevelt should be
re-elected President."  He told a press conference: "I never made
anti-British statements or said, on or off the record, that I do not
expect Britain to win the war."
British historian Nicholas Bethell wrote: "How Roosevelt contrived the
transformation is a mystery." And so it remained until the BSC Papers
disclosed that the President had been supplied with enough evidence of
Kennedy's disloyalty that the Ambassador, when shown it, saw discretion
to be the better part of valor. "If Kennedy had been recalled sooner,"
said Stephenson later, "he would have campaigned against FDR with a fair
chance of winning. We delayed him in London as best we could until he
could do the least harm back in the States."

The congressmen responsible for the US Neutrality Act claimed it was
in reaction to the enormous (US) war profiteering they saw during
WW1. The capitalists intent on doing business with Nazi Germany respin
that as isolationism in major publicity campaigns

... getting into the war

US wasn't in the war and Stalin was effectively fighting the Germans
alone and worried that Japan would attack from the east ... opening up
a second front. Stalin wanted US to come in against Japan (making sure
Japan had limited resources to open up a 2nd front against the Soviet
Union). US assistant SECTREAS Harry Dexter White was operating on
behalf of the Soviet Union and Stalin sends White a draft of demands
for US to present to Japan that would provoke Japan into attacking US
and drawing US into the war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Dexter_White#Venona_project
demands were included in the Hull Note which Japan received just prior
to decision to attack Perl Harbor, hull note
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_note#Interpretations
More Venona
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venona_project

Benn Stein in "The Battle of Bretton Woods" spends pages 55-58
discussing "Operation Snow".
https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Bretton-Woods-Relations-University-ebook/dp/B00B5ZQ72Y/
pg56/loc1065-66: The Soviets had, according to Karpov, used White to
provoke Japan to attack the United States. The scheme even had a name:
"Operation Snow," snow referring to White.

... after the war

Later somewhat replay of the 1940 celebration, there was conference of
5000 industrialists and corporations from across the US at the
Waldorf-Astoria, and in part because they had gotten such a bad
reputation for the depression and supporting Nazis, as part of
attempting to refurbish their horribly corrupt and venal image, they
approved a major propaganda campaign to equate Capitalism with
Christianity.
"https://www.amazon.com/One-Nation-Under-God-Corporate-ebook/dp/B00PWX7R56/
part of the result by the early 50s was adding "under god" to the
pledge of allegiance. slightly cleaned up version
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

The Coming of American Fascism, 1920-1940
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/172004

and old book that covers the early era covered in "Economists and the
Powerful": "Triumphant plutocracy; the story of American public life
from 1870 to 1920" (at the moment this part of way-back machine still
offline)
https://archive.org/details/triumphantpluto00pettrich

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Date Sujet#  Auteur
29 Sep 24 * Re: The joy of FORTRAN1568186282@ud0s4.net
29 Sep 24 `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN1567Lawrence D'Oliveiro
29 Sep 24  +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN1505rbowman
30 Sep 24  i+- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 Sep 24  i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN685186282@ud0s4.net
30 Sep 24  ii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN684rbowman
30 Sep 24  ii +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 Sep 24  ii i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1rbowman
30 Sep 24  ii +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN574The Natural Philosopher
30 Sep 24  ii i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN571Peter Flass
1 Oct 24  ii ii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN570Stefan Ram
2 Oct 24  ii ii +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2186282@ud0s4.net
3 Oct 24  ii ii i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1moi
25 Feb 25  ii ii `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN567vjp2.at
25 Feb 25  ii ii  +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN378Lawrence D'Oliveiro
25 Feb 25  ii ii  i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN377Peter Flass
25 Feb 25  ii ii  i +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN369John Ames
25 Feb 25  ii ii  i i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN236John Ames
25 Feb 25  ii ii  i ii+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN225Peter Flass
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN224Lawrence D'Oliveiro
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN219John Ames
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN218Lawrence D'Oliveiro
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i +- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1John Ames
27 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN216Rich Alderson
27 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i  +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
28 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i  i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1Rich Alderson
27 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i  `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN213John Ames
27 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i   +* Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN6John Levine
27 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i   i+- Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
28 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i   i+* Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN2John Levine
28 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i   ii`- Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN1John Levine
28 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i   i`* Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN2Chris Ahlstrom
1 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i   i `- Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
7 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i   `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN206Alfred Falk
7 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i    `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN205Dan Cross
7 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i     +- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1Lynn Wheeler
7 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i     `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN203rbowman
8 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i      +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3Dan Cross
8 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i      i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
8 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i      i `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1rbowman
8 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i      `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN199c186282
8 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i       `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN198rbowman
8 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN75rbowman
8 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN74The Natural Philosopher
9 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN73c186282
9 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i  `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN72rbowman
9 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN67c186282
9 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN16rbowman
10 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   ii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN15c186282
10 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   ii `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN14rbowman
10 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   ii  +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN7Sn!pe
10 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   ii  i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN5rbowman
10 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   ii  ii+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3Sn!pe
10 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   ii  iii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2rbowman
12 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   ii  iii `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
12 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   ii  ii`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
12 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   ii  i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
11 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   ii  `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN6c186282
11 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   ii   +- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1The Natural Philosopher
11 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   ii   `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN4rbowman
13 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   ii    `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3c186282
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13 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   ii      `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
10 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN50Rich Alderson
10 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN10c186282
10 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN8rbowman
10 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i ii+- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1rbowman
12 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i ii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN6c186282
12 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i ii +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2John Ames
12 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i ii i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1rbowman
12 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i ii `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3rbowman
12 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i ii  `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2Dan Cross
13 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i ii   `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
10 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
10 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN33rbowman
10 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN32The Natural Philosopher
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11 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN13The Natural Philosopher
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11 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i ii+- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1The Natural Philosopher
11 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i ii+- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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12 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i iii+- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
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12 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i iii `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1The Natural Philosopher
13 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i ii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3c186282
13 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i ii `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2The Natural Philosopher
14 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i ii  `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
12 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2c186282
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12 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i  `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN14The Natural Philosopher
12 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i   +- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1The Natural Philosopher
13 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i   `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN12rbowman
13 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i    +- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1rbowman
13 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i    +- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1rbowman
14 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i    +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN6Don_from_AZ
14 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i    i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
14 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i    ii`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
14 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i    i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
14 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i    i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
15 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i    `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3Peter Flass
10 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN6Don_from_AZ
9 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN4Kerr-Mudd, John
8 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN27Dan Espen
9 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN9c186282
9 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN86c186282
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3rbowman
27 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1Rich Alderson
25 Feb 25  ii ii  i ii+- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1Peter Flass
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i ii+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN7Rich
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i ii`* Re: The joy of old small computers, which sort of ran FORTRAN2John Levine
25 Feb 25  ii ii  i i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN101Peter Flass
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN27John Levine
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3c186282
28 Feb 25  ii ii  i i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
25 Feb 25  ii ii  i +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN4Bob Eager
25 Feb 25  ii ii  i `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
26 Feb 25  ii ii  `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN188c186282
1 Oct 24  ii i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2rbowman
30 Sep 24  ii +* OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN100Bobbie Sellers
30 Sep 24  ii `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN7Peter Flass
30 Sep 24  i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN818The Natural Philosopher
30 Sep 24  `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN61186282@ud0s4.net

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