Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy

On 13/11/2024 09:29, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

On 12/11/2024 21:40, Scott Lurndal wrote:

not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) writes:

In comp.os.linux.misc The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 11/11/2024 20:41, D wrote:

On Mon, 11 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 11/11/2024 19:45, rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 11 Nov 2024 11:51:14 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Isolationism led to Pearl  Harbour...and 911

>
Wrong on both counts. Stick to philosophy; your grasp of history is
deficient.

Wrong on both counts. Stick to parochial matters

>
I think rbowman has impressed me the most with his grasp of history, and
our differences when it comes to philosophy speak for themselves. So no
points for you I'm afraid. ;)

>
This inst a fucking debating society.
This is the future of civilisation.

>
Oh, so _this_ is where the future of civilisation gets decided.
>
Now where was that group where people talk about computers?...
>
But actually I was slightly looking forward to an explanation of
how Pearl Harbour and 9/11 were consequences of isolationism. It's
not my understanding of history either.

NP has seemingly conflated WWI with WWII.

>
Not sure what 911 event happened in WW1
>
Pearl harbour happened because the Japanese, having been allowed to
rape china concluded that the USA was a soft target.

 Agreed that Pearl Harbour was, to a certain extent, a consequence of the
US attempting to sit out WWII. (But also, a consequence of astoundingly
bad decision making in Japan, which would have also been the case if the
US had got involved earlier, albeit presumably with different
consequences.)
 

911 happened because the USA in its inimitably parochial way totally
failed to understand or notice the rise in Islamic fundamentalism.
>
At the time I thought 911 was understandable, but *undeserved*...

 Less agreement here.
 * Both broad strokes and specifics of US policy in the 1990s were highly
   interventionist. One of ObL’s big beefs was the US troops in Saudi
   Arabia.
 * The Americans very were aware of AQ’s ambitions based on the 1993 WTC
   bombing, the 1995 multi-airplane plot, etc.
 * The US were actively and overtly targetting AQ facilities, e.g. cruise
   missile attacks on Sudan.
 In my view the failings that failings that enabled 911 were more about
the details of their response to the AQ threat, rather than being in the
wrong place on the intervention/isolation spectrum.
 

Well at a certain point they merge.
Since we are talking about the detailed response to the Putin threat.
He is *already* committing acts of sabotage in the USA and Europe and political assassination outside of Russia.
rbwoman wants to simply ignore this as 'not America's problem' That's isolationism
*It already is*  ...and pretending that ignoring it will make it go away is rather sweet, but ultimately not especially effective.
.
--
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the urge to rule it.”
– H. L. Mencken