Re: Joy of this, Joy of that

Liste des GroupesRevenir à col misc 
Sujet : Re: Joy of this, Joy of that
De : nospam (at) *nospam* example.net (D)
Groupes : comp.os.linux.misc
Date : 07. Dec 2024, 22:57:00
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <07d2c73a-61b3-cf9e-7cc9-c5bf5f8e20ec@example.net>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
On Sat, 7 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 07/12/2024 16:42, D wrote:
The thing is... should we ever prove any of it, which is not done, it will all just be added to our concept of the "material world" (caveat emptor, and definitions aside) and expand it and enrich our model of it.
>
That is your credo - your religion.
I do not ascribe to it.
And I respect that. I disagree, it is not a religion, it is a description of the real world we actually live in, that is reality.
I know you do not ascribe to it. You have not managed to persuade me of your point, and likewise, I have not persuaded you of my point.
I agree to disgree. Do you? ;)

Already quantum physics makes the 'material world' some sort of emergent property of a natural dice throwing quagmire of sub atomicity. To the point where calling it a 'material world' seems a bit impertinent.
>
I merely say that to consider that the material world is just an emergent property of quantum soup *and* human consciousness, is more flexible and useful..
Regardless, it is still part of an expanding material world. When I say material, you need to stop thinking "material" and start thinking about reality as a totality, that we get to know better and better.
Quantum mechanics can progress, we are all energy, or strings, I really do not care, because that is just part of our material world, that we explore through the method and process of science.
It doesn't matter how hard one twists or turns, or looks to quantum theorists, what ever they find out, will just enlarge our understanding of the material world, or the universe, or the totality or what ever you want to call it.

I don't 'believe it to be 'true' because I cant believe *anything* to be true.
That is a self refuting position. Because that statement in itself, would be a truth you do subscribe to.

It's models, not turtles, all the way down. Models whose sole justification is that they work well enough for us to think them and not die prematurely.
True. But a model does not imply that there is no material world. In fact, the success of our models is a strong proof of a material world.

That the models are the transform - the map - of some underlying externality
... quantum, arguments we've been through before...
I understand your need for security, but don't let it limit your thinking.
I think that is insulting. Stop ascribing motivations or putting words in my mouth. If you do not, I will reverse the process, and we will end up killfiling each other or angrily ignoring each other. I would not like for that to happen.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
19 Nov 24 * Joy of this, Joy of that806root
20 Nov 24 +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that4Lawrence D'Oliveiro
20 Nov 24 i`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that3root
20 Nov 24 i +- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
20 Nov 24 i `- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1rbowman
20 Nov 24 `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that801186282@ud0s4.net
20 Nov 24  +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that193Rich
20 Nov 24  i+- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1The Natural Philosopher
21 Nov 24  i`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that191186282@ud0s4.net
21 Nov 24  i +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
14 Jan 25  i i`- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1Bozo User
21 Nov 24  i +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that187The Natural Philosopher
22 Nov 24  i i`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that186Don_from_AZ
22 Nov 24  i i `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that185Lawrence D'Oliveiro
23 Nov 24  i i  `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that184186282@ud0s4.net
23 Nov 24  i i   +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that5Lawrence D'Oliveiro
24 Nov 24  i i   i`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that4186282@ud0s4.net
24 Nov 24  i i   i +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
24 Nov 24  i i   i i`- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1186282@ud0s4.net
24 Nov 24  i i   i `- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1rbowman
23 Nov 24  i i   `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that178The Natural Philosopher
23 Nov 24  i i    +- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1rbowman
23 Nov 24  i i    +- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
24 Nov 24  i i    +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that174186282@ud0s4.net
24 Nov 24  i i    i+- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1rbowman
24 Nov 24  i i    i`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that172Rich
24 Nov 24  i i    i +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that168The Natural Philosopher
24 Nov 24  i i    i i+* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that159Rich
24 Nov 24  i i    i ii`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that158D
25 Nov 24  i i    i ii `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that157rbowman
25 Nov 24  i i    i ii  `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that156D
25 Nov 24  i i    i ii   `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that155The Natural Philosopher
25 Nov 24  i i    i ii    +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that15D
26 Nov 24  i i    i ii    i`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that14rbowman
26 Nov 24  i i    i ii    i +- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1D
26 Nov 24  i i    i ii    i `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that12Pancho
26 Nov 24  i i    i ii    i  `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that11Rich
26 Nov 24  i i    i ii    i   +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that2Chris Ahlstrom
27 Nov 24  i i    i ii    i   i`- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1Pancho
26 Nov 24  i i    i ii    i   `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that8rbowman
26 Nov 24  i i    i ii    i    +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that4D
27 Nov 24  i i    i ii    i    i+- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1Rich
27 Nov 24  i i    i ii    i    i`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that2rbowman
27 Nov 24  i i    i ii    i    i `- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1D
27 Nov 24  i i    i ii    i    `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that3The Natural Philosopher
27 Nov 24  i i    i ii    i     `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that2rbowman
28 Nov 24  i i    i ii    i      `- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1The Natural Philosopher
25 Nov 24  i i    i ii    `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that139Lawrence D'Oliveiro
27 Nov 24  i i    i ii     `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that138186282@ud0s4.net
27 Nov 24  i i    i ii      `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that137Lawrence D'Oliveiro
28 Nov 24  i i    i ii       `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that136186282@ud0s4.net
28 Nov 24  i i    i ii        +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that133rbowman
28 Nov 24  i i    i ii        i`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that132186282@ud0s4.net
28 Nov 24  i i    i ii        i +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that3rbowman
29 Nov 24  i i    i ii        i i`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that2186282@ud0s4.net
29 Nov 24  i i    i ii        i i `- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1rbowman
28 Nov 24  i i    i ii        i `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that128Lawrence D'Oliveiro
29 Nov 24  i i    i ii        i  `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that127186282@ud0s4.net
29 Nov 24  i i    i ii        i   +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that116rbowman
30 Nov 24  i i    i ii        i   i`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that115186282@ud0s4.net
30 Nov 24  i i    i ii        i   i +- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 Nov 24  i i    i ii        i   i `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that113rbowman
30 Nov 24  i i    i ii        i   i  +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that2The Natural Philosopher
1 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i  i`- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
1 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i  `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that110186282@ud0s4.net
1 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i   +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that5The Natural Philosopher
1 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i   i+* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that2Rich
3 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i   ii`- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1186282@ud0s4.net
1 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i   i+- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1D
2 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i   i`- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1186282@ud0s4.net
1 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i   +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
3 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i   i`- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1186282@ud0s4.net
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3 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i     +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that2The Natural Philosopher
3 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i     i`- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1rbowman
3 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i     `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that98rbowman
5 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i      `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that97186282@ud0s4.net
5 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that92D
6 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that91186282@ud0s4.net
6 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that37rbowman
6 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i i+* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that34D
7 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i ii+* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that2186282@ud0s4.net
7 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i iii`- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1D
7 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i ii+* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that17186282@ud0s4.net
7 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i iii`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that16D
7 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i iii +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that14Rich
7 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i iii i`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that13D
7 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i iii i `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that12Rich
7 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i iii i  +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that10D
8 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i iii i  i+* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that7Rich
8 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i iii i  ii+* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that5rbowman
8 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i iii i  iii`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that4Rich
8 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i iii i  iii +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that2The Natural Philosopher
9 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i iii i  iii i`- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1The Natural Philosopher
8 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i iii i  iii `- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1rbowman
8 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i iii i  ii`- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1D
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8 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i iii i  i `- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1D
7 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i iii i  `- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1D
8 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i iii `- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1186282@ud0s4.net
7 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i ii`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that14D
7 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i i`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that2186282@ud0s4.net
6 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       i `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that53D
5 Dec 24  i i    i ii        i   i       `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that4Lawrence D'Oliveiro
29 Nov 24  i i    i ii        i   `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that10Lawrence D'Oliveiro
28 Nov 24  i i    i ii        `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
25 Nov 24  i i    i i`* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that8vallor
24 Nov 24  i i    i `* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that3D
24 Nov 24  i i    `- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1Rich
21 Nov 24  i `- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1Rich
20 Nov 24  +* Re: Joy of this, Joy of that606John Ames
20 Nov 24  `- Re: Joy of this, Joy of that1rbowman

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