Re: evolution of bytes, The joy of FORTRAN

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Sujet : Re: evolution of bytes, The joy of FORTRAN
De : antispam (at) *nospam* fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch)
Groupes : alt.folklore.computers comp.os.linux.misc
Date : 02. Mar 2025, 15:58:22
Autres entêtes
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Message-ID : <vq1rmc$to24$1@paganini.bofh.team>
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In alt.folklore.computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
According to Peter Flass  <peter_flass@yahoo.com>:
A lot of older machines were character-addressable. The term “byte” hadn’t
been invented yet. The 1401 (etc), 1620, and many 70xx machines.
 
Oh sure but I am fairly sure that the 360 was the first machine that
was both character and word addressable with the words at power-of-two
addresses, and a design that allowed word operationw to work as a unit
rather than serially by character.
 
As far as I know it was also the first character addressable binary
machine.  The earlier ones were decimal.

Honeywell 200 has 8-bit memory units and is binary addressable.
While "intended" computations are decimal, IIRC it has binary
address arithmetic.  There were several machines where 4-bit
BCD digits were addressable and which used binary addresses.
Those machines operated serially, but this was mostly at level
of implementation.  Machine instructions were defined as
operationg on sequences.

360 was build on philosophy that putting more circuits into
machine can be done at reasonable cost and that extra circuits
are worth it.  So, the initial idea for 8-bit characters and
24-bit words lost and 32-bit words won.

360 had goal of offering both low end and high end machines.
Good preformance at high end required fixed length words
and at least 18 address bits, so word lenth bigger or equal
than 18.  IBM deemed decimal arithmetic to be necessary for
comercial market.  Theoreticaly they could use character
based artihtmetic like in 1401.  But that is wasteful.
Also, 1401 had 6-bit characters which were limiting for
some applications, so bigger characters were needed at least
as on option.  So more natural choice was BCD and limited
1401 compatibility.  With BCD it is natural to have word
length that is divisible by 4.  Low end models were very
important to profitability of 360, and at hardware level
thay should operate with fraction of word length.  That
leaves relatively small number of reasonable combinations:
24 bit architectural words with 8 or 12 bit hardware, 32
bit architectural words with 8 or 16 bit hardware, 36 bit
architectural words with 12 bit hardware.  36 bits could
give floating pint compatibility with earlier "scientific"
models, but othewise I do not see advantages.  24 bit
may be attractive from purely hardware point of view,
but clearly complicate things for characters different
(bigger) than 6 bits.  That leaves 32-bits.  At least
character processing instructions need character
addressability and since there are enough address bits
it is natural to use character addresses for all
instructions.

In seventies demand for at least 7 bit characters was strong,
BCD remained relevant, so even if mainframes would use
different word length microprocessors naturally would
tend to use 8 bit bytes for the same reasons as present
in IBM 360 case.

So, IBM may be first for specific combination of features,
but there were stong reasons for the choice and since IBM
was one of leading companies those reasons acted on them
with more force.

--
                              Waldek Hebisch

Date Sujet#  Auteur
29 Sep 24 * Re: The joy of FORTRAN1568186282@ud0s4.net
29 Sep 24 `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN1567Lawrence D'Oliveiro
29 Sep 24  +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN1505rbowman
30 Sep 24  i+- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 Sep 24  i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN685186282@ud0s4.net
30 Sep 24  ii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN684rbowman
30 Sep 24  ii +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 Sep 24  ii i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1rbowman
30 Sep 24  ii +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN574The Natural Philosopher
30 Sep 24  ii i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN571Peter Flass
1 Oct 24  ii ii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN570Stefan Ram
2 Oct 24  ii ii +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2186282@ud0s4.net
3 Oct 24  ii ii i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1moi
25 Feb 25  ii ii `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN567vjp2.at
25 Feb 25  ii ii  +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN378Lawrence D'Oliveiro
25 Feb 25  ii ii  i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN377Peter Flass
25 Feb 25  ii ii  i +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN369John Ames
25 Feb 25  ii ii  i i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN236John Ames
25 Feb 25  ii ii  i ii+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN225Peter Flass
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN224Lawrence D'Oliveiro
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN219John Ames
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN218Lawrence D'Oliveiro
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i +- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1John Ames
27 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN216Rich Alderson
27 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i  +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
28 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i  i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1Rich Alderson
27 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i  `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN213John Ames
27 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i   +* Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN6John Levine
27 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i   i+- Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
28 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i   i+* Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN2John Levine
28 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i   ii`- Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN1John Levine
28 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii i   i`* Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN2Chris Ahlstrom
1 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i   i `- Re: the end of 18 bits, The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
7 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i   `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN206Alfred Falk
7 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i    `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN205Dan Cross
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8 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i      +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3Dan Cross
8 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i      i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
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8 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN74The Natural Philosopher
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14 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i    +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN6Don_from_AZ
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14 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i    ii`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
14 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i    i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
14 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i i    i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
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10 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   i `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN6Don_from_AZ
9 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        i   `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN4Kerr-Mudd, John
8 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN27Dan Espen
9 Mar 25  ii ii  i iii i        +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN9c186282
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26 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3rbowman
27 Feb 25  ii ii  i iii `- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1Rich Alderson
25 Feb 25  ii ii  i ii+- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1Peter Flass
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i ii+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN7Rich
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i ii`* Re: The joy of old small computers, which sort of ran FORTRAN2John Levine
25 Feb 25  ii ii  i i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN101Peter Flass
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN27John Levine
26 Feb 25  ii ii  i i+* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3c186282
28 Feb 25  ii ii  i i`- Re: The joy of FORTRAN1c186282
25 Feb 25  ii ii  i +* Re: The joy of FORTRAN4Bob Eager
25 Feb 25  ii ii  i `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
26 Feb 25  ii ii  `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN188c186282
1 Oct 24  ii i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN2rbowman
30 Sep 24  ii +* OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN100Bobbie Sellers
30 Sep 24  ii `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN7Peter Flass
30 Sep 24  i`* Re: The joy of FORTRAN818The Natural Philosopher
30 Sep 24  `* Re: The joy of FORTRAN61186282@ud0s4.net

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