Re: Microsoft Flip-Flops on Win11 requirements

On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 10:16:21 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 17:42:37 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>

On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 23:27:41 +0200, Anssi Saari
<anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:
>

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:
>

Microsoft's Windows10 operating system was one of its most popular
products. Windows 11, however, has seen a much slower uptake. This is
in part because it requires built in TPM, a hardware encryption
processor that not all computers have built in.

>
What happened to the fairly stringent CPU requirements? Were they lifted
earlier or something?
>
I have a couple of 2010-ish laptops with Windows 10 which I haven't used
in a few years. I guess I could keep the better one of them around still
although I don't really know what for...

>
I think all the increased CPU requirements had to do with ensuring the
processors had TPM support. From what I've read, architecturally
there's no real performance difference running Win10 and Win11 on the
same hardware. Win10 just didn't /require/ TPM. Win11 does.
>
(and note, it STILL requires it. Microsoft just isn't bending over
backwards to prevent you from running it on unsupported hardware
anymore)
>
I mean, hell, Win11 technically supports Intel Atom processors. ;-)
>

Nah. My wife's old laptop had a 6 series Core CPU and even *it* had TPM
2.0 right on the die. I used Rufus to put 11 on it. Works perfectly.
Picked up the TPM right away. Even Memory Isolation works.
>
IIRC, there was some instruction extension on 8 series+ Core CPUs.
>
a) Now with the 13 & 14 series fiasco, they're may be trying to rescue
Intel.
>

It's less Intel than OEMs in general. There's increasingly little
reason to buy a new computer these days unless your old one breaks. A
five year old PC is still a very capable machine. Heck, my ten
(Twelve? Fourteen? I forget) year old PC is still a surprisingly
powerful machine, able to run most modern games). There's very little
reason for people to buy a new PC... unless all of a sudden your
current one stops working. And for most people, "can't patch your OS
and programs now require the newest version of Windows" counts as 'not
working'.

The computer OEM business is cut-throat and has extremely low margins.
They NEED people to stay on the upgrade treadmill. This new TPM
requirement helps Intel (and AMD, for that matter), of course, but if
Microsoft is adding this requirement for the benefit for the OEMs more
than anyone else. It keeps people on that treadmill.

The Win11 requirements essentially rule out anything before an 8th Gen
Intel core or earlier than and AMD Ryzen 2000. Both are more than
capable of running the OS. Both date back to ~2018. The CPUs are more
than powerful enough for the OS.

b) They need people to bite hard on Copilot. Windows 10 doesn't really
have that feature built into the OS. They've bet the (server) farm.

Or just Microsoft services in general. They've pivoted /hard/ into
software-as-a-service, and Windows 11 pushes that integration a lot
more than did Windows 10. It /really/ wants you to create a Microsoft
account just to install the thing (it's still possible to bypass that
requirement with some hackery, but Microsoft works hard to close those
holes on the most commonly used home versions). Microsoft also is
making mint on advertising, either with direct marketing or just
shoving partner's apps onto user's computers.
 

It's almost certainly one of those two.

The thing about it is, the TPM requirement really isn't that
outrageous. Having a dedicated hardware based cryptoprocessor is
actually beneficial to end-users, and it's a proactive move in a world
where hacks are becoming ever more sophisticated. Yet despite this,
OEMs are very likely to penny-pinch and go for cheaper alternatives if
allowed to do so. To some degree, Microsoft is between a rock and a
hard place; damned if they do and damned if they don't. Not requiring
the module and they get blamed for hacks. Require it and they get
blamed for abandoning swathes of customers.

The problem wasn't so much the TPM requirement; it was that Microsoft
was actively shutting down attempts to bypass it by people who -for
whatever reason- didn't have supported hardware. I /like/ this new
solution. It puts a banner on the screen reminding people that they're
running on unsupported hardware and any risks are THEIR fault but
still allowing them the freedom to do so. And although that banner can
be disabled, it very likely will be automatically RE-ENABLED with
every update, which will discourage OEMs from trying to sneak around
the requirement.