Re: Just Another Necessary Reminder That Valve Promotes Underage Gambling

On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 11:47:59 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

On 30/12/2024 05:24, Xocyll wrote:

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
say:
 

>
While it's great fun to point fingers at Epic, or Microsoft, at EA or
Activision for their scummy, quasi-legal behaviors, let's not also
forget that the darling of the PC Gaming industry, Valve, is neck-deep
in supporting not only gambling, but underage gambling.
>
A huge chunk of Valve's income derives from selling lootbox items used
as 'tokens' by gambling websites, and the company turns a blind eye to
the practice even as it rakes in billions. Its uses psychologically
manipulative practices to ensnare its victims, and uses the same shady
tactics as other gambling companies to find loopholes that keep it
(just barely) on the right side of the law (and sometimes not even
then).

 
If they sell "lootbox" items used as "tokens" on gambling sites, isn't
it the gambling sites responsibility to not have underaged people on
their sites?
 
If they can't use the tokens, the underaged won't buy them.
 
If some bar does a weird promotion, like bring in a rose, get a free
beer, you gonna blame the florist for an underaged kid buying a rose and
trading it for beer?
 
Not illegal to buy a rose, or sell one, the bar is committing the
illegal act by trading a kid a beer for that rose.
 
Assign the blame where it belongs, with the gambling sites that are not
keeping underaged gamblers off their sites.
 

>
Legally I think they are ok, certainly no expert, because Steam doesn't
directly allow you to convert your skins to real money although that can
be done by 3rd party websites. Ethically I don't think they have a leg
to stand on as although lootboxes may not technically classed as
gambling they have all the hallmarks of why gambling is regulated. The
also know how skins may be used but do nothing about it. If they wanted
to they could remove all the lootboxes, make the contents buy able
directly. I'm pretty sure Valve have read the studies looking at the
link between lootboxes and problem gambling.
>
The problem with that is Valve no longer get a take of the real life
economy based around skins.

Legally, they are right on the edge. Valve skirts the law through
loopholes, but they are neck-deep in the gambling industry and profit
off it mightily.

But even disregarding the antics of the third-party websites, it's
still gambling. The lootboxes they sell (yours only for $2.49USD on
Steam) present you your goodies through a roulette-wheel aesthetic.
It's purposefully designed to make you think you just might get the
big-ticket item ("Oh, so close, instead of the super-ultra-rare hat,
the ticker stopped 1mm to the right and landed on the completely
worthless and common gun), encouraging people to try-try-again until
you get the good stuff. This is a very obvious gambling mechanic.

But like pachinko parlors in Japan, Steam claims it /isn't/ gambling
because you can't 'cash out'. There's no way to directly sell the
items you for money that can be used outside of Steam. Except... oh
wait, you can! Sell those items on Steam to another player and your
Steam wallet has cash in it that can be used to buy other cosmetics,
or games, or even a Steam deck!

Then there are third-party websites, which either use those cosmetic
items themselves as tokens for even more gambling, or simply buy the
items from you and give you cash.

(Japanese Pachinko parlors do the same thing. Your wins there are in
the form of silver balls that can be redeemed -in the parlor- only for
prizes, like stuffed bears or novelty pencils. Because no cash is
being handed out, it skirts gambling laws. But just outside the store
are OTHER shops that will happily buy those prizes back from you for
cold hard cash.)

Meanwhile, Valve is well aware of how their cosmetics are being used
as tokens, and do almost nothing to stop it. To stop it almost
entirely in its tracks, they could simply stop item trading/selling,
for instance. Or they could just make it so there are no 'rare' items;
that every cosmetic is equally accessible and can be purchased for the
same price, which would make items fungible. Or they could invest a
little of the estimated $4 billion per year they get through item
trading into actually policing their market to make sure it isn't
being abused. Yet they do none of this.

And throughout it all, Valve rakes it in. When you buy the lootbox,
they get money. When you sell or trade the items, they take a cut. To
utilize all these items, you have to buy the games through Steam. And
because all this is done through Steam, it not only means it bolsters
their user-count, but makes it more likely you will buy MORE stuff
(games, Steamdecks, whatever) through their marketplace.

Valve is neck-deep in the gambling industry. They use the same
tactics, the same excuses, the same loopholes as online gambling. They
profit heavily from it. They purposefully ignore the problem so they
don't have to do anything about it. They fight laws (including
ignoring a court order from a judge in Washington State, US, where
they are based) to curb the practice.

There's a lot I like about what Valve has done for the PC industry,
but it's built on some very scummy practices, and increasingly it
targets young children. Their actions are indefensible and we really
shouldn't be giving them a pass while at the same time shaking our
fingers at the like of Ubisoft or Epic.